To Tell Friend To Feed Her Child Properly

[ChilledBee]

I have a friend with a four year old son. He's very small for his age and her HV and GP have made suggestions about how to change this. She isn't vegan but eats meat seldom and only shops organic and local. She makes these dishes which are foreign type stews with things like aubergine and squash (I eat/cook these things too) and will sprinkle some feta or another cheese on top. Or something with spinach and lentils. It isn't awful but for an acquired taste. My DH says it Italy seems like a side dish and he is waiting for the joint of slow cooked meat and some potatoes to accompany it. Any meat is organic/free range butcher ordered so very expensive and rarely eaten. She is very much into ethical shopping/farming/eating.

The trouble is, when I see the vegetables,they are often old (she gets a lot of home grown produce from her own allotment or that of friends) so I imagine the nutrients are depleted. Her son barely eats any of the food she gives him and she does worry about that because he's not only small but has some vitamin deficiencies too. But she thinks it has something else going on rather then he just doesn't like the food she makes.

Last week, she had to unfortunately stay in hospital for several days (10) with her mother who was touch and go. Her son stayed with me and even though it was something completely unfamiliar, he settled in well. She gave no dietary instructions so I just fed him like I do my own kids (3,3 and 1) on home cooked meals cooked from scratch (spaghetti bolognese,shepherds pie, burgers and chips) and he wolfed it down. In fact, the first day he came he had seconds and ice cream and jelly afterwards (pudding isn't routine in our house). I am embarrassed to say that I weighed him that night and the day before he went home. He gained 5lbs! My DH felt that I was out of order weighing him but I have to say that seeing him eat like that made me want to prove something I'd suspected all along.

I want to tell her that her son badly needs to eat food he likes and is healthy for a child. She often refers to childhood obesity but I think she underestimates the amount of fat and carbs a growing child needs. I know she feels quite isolated by her HV and GP who have sort of threatened her with SS (she says) but won't refer her for the medical investigations she wants. Her sister had 'failure to thrive' and was later found to have cerebral palsy which contributed to this but it isn't a hereditary condition which could explain her son's small stature. My DH doesn't think she is mentally stable. I think she is precious at best.

Would you say something?

Presumably though as OP has eaten round her friends house so often, often enough to know what she feeds her child daily, the friend has also eaten round Ops house lots? So will have seen her DS eat ops food?

Has your friend never seen her DS eat at your house?

Your posts are confusing because we are having to wade through a lot of your ignorance and judgement

This is the issue here, OP.
I actually completely agree with you that your friend needs to sort out her son’s diet. He clearly doesn’t seem to be eating enough.
But your posts seem very ignorant towards diets that are different to yours in general.

graphista the most nutritious veg is the frozen variety apparently!

My 3 year olds are on the 50th and 30th centile I think (one is adopted, not twins). My 1 year old is on the 25th

Centile of what? Height? Weight? Each is meaningless on their own. I have a completely healthy and thriving 5-year-old on the 15th centile for weight, but she's only on the 2nd for height so her weight for her height is very healthy.

It's very hard to say what's best here. Your menu is, on the face of it, much less healthy than hers. I think most children would wolf down jelly and burgers, but it doesn't mean it's good for them. But if her son is underweight it does suggest there might be a problem. You have no way of knowing, however, if that's due to his diet or some other issue.

Since her doctor and health visitor are actively involved I don't think there is any need for you to throw in your two cents (unless you're a nutritionist or qualified in some other way).

I agree with your husband that you were out of order to weigh the child.

I cook with herbs and spices like fresh basil, dill, rosemary and mint. If I were to go out now to eat, I'd go for some Korean food (my favourite). But this is a kid we are talking about. If he didn't have health issues, this thread wouldn't exist.

As long as you cook with decent European herbs not those filthy forrin ones

In Korea they just call it 'food'.

And malnutrition in Africa isn't caused by spicy food and picky children FFS. Crack a book.

I think some of your concern is genuine but the overlay of racism and judgmental nonsense makes it very difficult to make a point to us, never mind this mother.

Well, I'm pretty sure the rate of starvation and malnutrition is higher in North and East Africa than in the UK

Are you suggesting it's because children don't like the flavours of the local food??

What a ridiculous comment

Indeed.

These rules about carbs and pasta are relevant to adults and overweight children. Not little underweight boys with vitamin deficiencies

No - anyone’s blood sugar is spiked by eating white carbs. Not just adults.
I am actually in favour of everything in moderation, though - I don’t think white pasta is the devil and my DS even eats (shock horror) potato waffles some days. I was just stating a fact to another poster who said that pasta isn’t healthy. I was simply saying that it can be healthier if you chose wholewheat. That’s all.

@Motherinlawsdung chips, ice cream and jelly are all perfectly fine as part of a balanced diet. Children need a wide variety of food to get the nutrients they need and also to enjoy eating. My kids eat almost everything including fish, scallops, mussel, butter, cream, all fruits, chocolate biscuits, meat, pie, chips, veg, rice, noodles, pasta, nuts, bread, spicy foods like chilli, cake, crisps, pop, juice, pancakes, popcorn, croissants and other pastries, yoghurt, cereal, chocolate spread, fajitas, spaghetti Bol, steak, all types of cheese including strong cheddar, Brie, Edam and jarlsberg, Soreen, haggis, bacon, sausages, eggs, the list goes on. No food should be labelled as good or bad for children, it’s just food. They need a lot of it and we, as parents need to provide it.

Are you suggesting it's because children don't like the flavours of the local food??

No, I'm suggesting that a low fat vegetable based diet is not a good diet for a child, and that children who eat similar diets in Sub-Saharan Africa due to poverty, conflict and other factors are malnourished. And so saying 'What do foreign children starve or something?' is ridiculous.

HTH

terry i think youve entirely got the wrong end of the stick.

The kid doesnt like the food. The mum continues to cook it. Really what the food is is a red herring.

Would you continue cooking things your child didnt eat and let them go hungry?

No. Me either.

All I can say is that if I didnt know her son barely ate and had related health issues, I wouldn't have anything to say about the diet. I (and my kids) eat round hers often. One of my kids loves her food (wants 2nds etc). The others will eat some of it without fuss.

I literally spoke about what she eats because I assumed that people would ask what she actually gives him. It doesn't matter what it is, he doesn't like it.

I weighed him because I wanted to see if he would gain weight if he continued to eat how he did the first day he was with us. And he did. 2-3 meals per day.

My daughter was very underweight. She was born very prematurely. I spoke to a dietician at the hospital and they said to ensure she had a very balanced diet which included carbs, protein, dairy and healthy fats. A spaghetti bolognese and a shepards pie is perfectly fine as is burger and chips occasionally. Of course everyone on Mumsnet only makes lentil curries for their children but in the same breath asks the Mumsnet Jury if they can get make their children egg on toast tonight because they can't be bothered to cook.

And so saying 'What do foreign children starve or something?' is ridiculous

No, it isn’t. We were saying that children in other countries who don’t eat burgers and shepherds pie manage to eat other flavours just fine. There are many countries around the world with very low rates of malnutrition who don’t eat good old English food. HTH.

OP I totally agree with you, the gp and hv are concerned and she is going against a dietician advice of more meat. I dont know if you could actually say this to the mother though, could cause offence.

Most kids overeat when presented with junk food- burgers, chips, ice-cream etc. Most kids eat better at a friends because they are being polite. If this little boy gained 5lbs in 10 days on your diet then it clearly isn't healthy for him. The fact that you and your hubby are both overweight indicates that the food you eat isn't healthy or you eat too much. Your kids might be a healthy weight right now- but if we could fast forward 20 years do you think they will still be in the ideal weigh category? not likely!

I sympathise OP, I often feel this way about a friends kid. A lot of people (especially those who are very careful with their own weight) really don't understand that children's dietary needs are different to adults. They need calories, fat, carbohydrate etc to grow.

You can't really intervene tho, except maybe to invite them round plenty so she sees how well he eats on different choices etc.

At least he is starting school & will get offered perhaps more child friendly/palatable food for his school lunch?

I see what you’re saying OP. This is a child who apparently doesn’t have much appetite and isn’t eating enough to meet his nutritional needs.
Yet when he was at your house, he did have a very hearty appetite. Therefore you think your friend should change what she feeds him. I agree with you, and I don’t know why other people can’t see this? She could relax or change her eating “standards” and try and introduce foods he’d enjoy more. Simple.

You don’t want to indulge your kids and only ever feed them what they want (for my ds, that’d be pizza). But at the same time you don’t want to Never give them what they enjoy.
My dh and I rarely ate meat before we had kids but my ds loves his meat. He has to be coaxed into eating carbs or veg. My dd loves her vegetarian meals - we make stuff with chickpeas, lentils, sweet potatoes etc. My ds literally cries when we have meals like that and will barely eat at all. Imagine if we had meals like that all the time. He’d eat very little because he would rather not eat at all, than eat something he dislikes. We’ll get him to eat a couple mouthfuls but that’s all. I think it’s good to make some allowances for kids’ tastes. It’s all very well saying, kids eat spicy food in other countries etc - but we don’t live there do we? They must pick up cues from their environment and what they see around them.

@ethelfleda

Your blood sugar spiking is a normal reaction to eating food. Eating so much carbs/sugar that you remain in a near constant state of raised sugar levels is unhealthy. This is where people confuse what is healthy for a fat adult and what is healthy for a growing child. The BBC did a report on it about a decade ago in regards to nurseries feeding children these low fat diets. In some cases they were given half a fajita. My friend tuns a nursery and she says how little food the children are given because they have to weigh the portions or something.

1 and three are still young enough to be a product of their geneticly programmed ideal weight before the effects of diet take hold.

I’d leave your house and move in with your friend. Your diet sounds on track for obesity. Your friend is feeding her child much healthier food.

Except her friend’s son doesn’t like it and it sounds like he is quite undernourished. The food she served him is hardly ‘on track for obesity’ What nonsense.

It sounds like his GP is monitoring him, and will do what is necessary to get through to your friend. Unless she raises it though, I wouldn’t say anything. She will likely only see it as judgemental and ignore.

To PP saying his diet sounds way healthier than yours; he doesn't eat the diet she feeds him on! So he is starving. And there are plenty of healthy ways of cooking bolognaise and shepherds pies - I hide loads of veggies in the blended sauces, swap white pasta for wholemeal or even the pea protein pasta, sweet potatoes mixed in with white potatoes... even burgers and chips can be done healthy if you make your own burgers.
Children are growing and burn off a lot of calories. People often underestimate how much fat and carbs they need. Healthy ones, obviously, are better than the less healthy ones, but even a Mac Donald's once a week isn't going to leave a mark on a healthy, energetic child. A hungry, undernourished child will be lethargic and unenthusiastic to do anything. Just like obesity, undernourishment and being underfed can (and will) lead to all sorts of physical and mental health issues throughout life.
Some kids are naturally skinny, some more "solid", but if a child is fed a BALANCED diet, with food they enjoy, not forced to eat food you hate or go without, then they will have a healthy relationship with food growing up and into adulthood.
I would think about how I would say it but I would definitely say something! Perhaps make an extra portion of the spaghetti bolognaise, drop it off to her and just say "he loved this when he was staying with us - wanted seconds! So I thought I would save him some!" Do the same with the shepherds pie another time. Make sure she knows there are veggies in the sauce etc, assuming there are, but make a big fuss about how he kept asking for more. Even say "I hope you don't mind but my kids wanted me to give this to him 🤷🏻‍♀️"
It can't hurt. Maybe she will have to start swaying from her rulebook. It's the same rulebook I swore to live by when I was pregnant with DS1. He's now 4 and eats anything, but not by following my rulebook. His rules, his way!

Jeez op could have given him brown pasta which is filling for active kids and you can put a ton of veggies in spaghetti bol?? Tons of it, he needs carbs and fat etc as he is a growing boy, what do you all make every night? Maybe you could give OPs friends some tips with all your carb, fat, meat and sugar free dinners???

In this case your best bet is to be supportive but not interfering. I would suggest that weighing her child is overstepping this mark, even if it’s well-intentioned. You sound like you have the best of intentions you aren’t a dietician and this isn’t your child.

A lovely supportive thing to do would be to drop round a dinner for them once a week. This would let you feel like you’re making a difference and give you the peace of mind that you’ve tried everything you can. You can always tell your friend that this was something he wolfed down at yours so you know it is a favourite.

I remember when we started with a vegetarian diet, it was kept healthy and balanced but still my DCs growth did slow down. It was while visiting family that I got to compare him with his cousin who is the same age. Both of us (fathers and mothers) parents are similar in builds, height and genetically the boys should have been around the same. My DC was much smaller after a year as a vegetarian! I cut that type of diet out right away and added meat and fish into his diet. He is now, some years later, catching up. We now have 2 vegetarian meals, 3 fish meals and 2 red/white meat meals spread out over a week, he is bigger than most of his class which is what I would expect with my families height and build as well as his fathers. It is all about balance, DS has to try things a few times, if he doesn't like it I won't make it for him. Not sure how you would address this to your friend though OP, I managed to wise up without help as such. If not my DS would be tiny and a lot less healthy than the happy, well-balanced and healthy boy he is now. Maybe invite her and her DC around for tea a few times, say nothing but just let her observe her son? Just make sure the food you serve is classed as healthy and she might wake up.