To Tell Friend To Feed Her Child Properly

[ChilledBee]

I have a friend with a four year old son. He's very small for his age and her HV and GP have made suggestions about how to change this. She isn't vegan but eats meat seldom and only shops organic and local. She makes these dishes which are foreign type stews with things like aubergine and squash (I eat/cook these things too) and will sprinkle some feta or another cheese on top. Or something with spinach and lentils. It isn't awful but for an acquired taste. My DH says it Italy seems like a side dish and he is waiting for the joint of slow cooked meat and some potatoes to accompany it. Any meat is organic/free range butcher ordered so very expensive and rarely eaten. She is very much into ethical shopping/farming/eating.

The trouble is, when I see the vegetables,they are often old (she gets a lot of home grown produce from her own allotment or that of friends) so I imagine the nutrients are depleted. Her son barely eats any of the food she gives him and she does worry about that because he's not only small but has some vitamin deficiencies too. But she thinks it has something else going on rather then he just doesn't like the food she makes.

Last week, she had to unfortunately stay in hospital for several days (10) with her mother who was touch and go. Her son stayed with me and even though it was something completely unfamiliar, he settled in well. She gave no dietary instructions so I just fed him like I do my own kids (3,3 and 1) on home cooked meals cooked from scratch (spaghetti bolognese,shepherds pie, burgers and chips) and he wolfed it down. In fact, the first day he came he had seconds and ice cream and jelly afterwards (pudding isn't routine in our house). I am embarrassed to say that I weighed him that night and the day before he went home. He gained 5lbs! My DH felt that I was out of order weighing him but I have to say that seeing him eat like that made me want to prove something I'd suspected all along.

I want to tell her that her son badly needs to eat food he likes and is healthy for a child. She often refers to childhood obesity but I think she underestimates the amount of fat and carbs a growing child needs. I know she feels quite isolated by her HV and GP who have sort of threatened her with SS (she says) but won't refer her for the medical investigations she wants. Her sister had 'failure to thrive' and was later found to have cerebral palsy which contributed to this but it isn't a hereditary condition which could explain her son's small stature. My DH doesn't think she is mentally stable. I think she is precious at best.

Would you say something?

[MaxNormal]

"Tons of vegetables" isn't necessarily the healthiest diet for a small child.
My own mother went through a vegetarian, pulses, curries, home made yogurt and dark rye bread phase when I was very young. I like all of this now but couldn't eat it then. The textures and flavours were really unpleasant to me and I remember being really hungry.
I struggled with most veg till I was a teenager then starting eating it with great enthusiasm. My taste buds just needed to get there.
Poor kid. It's miserable having that sort of diet inflicted on you.

[Redwinestillfine]

Use it as an opening. Tell her he seemed to have an enormous appetite, offer recipes. Talk up the health benefits of what you served so she doesn't dismiss it.

[geojojo]

It sounds as if your friend is very into healthy eating and her food sounds lovely to me. However if her ds isn't eating it he isn't getting any of the benefits of 'tonnes of vegetables' etc. There definitely is a balance. I feel I feed my children healthy foods but I won't persevere with a type of food if they just repeatedly won't eat it, especially if they had deficiencies.

If I were you I would give her the recipes of foods that her son ate at your house, explain to her how much he enjoyed them. They also sound lovely and healthy so I'm sure she would be open to it. If she also has dietician involvement, they will probably be giving her similar advice.

[yesteaandawineplease]

OP ignore the negative comments. people love to pick apart your comments and lay into the op totally missing the point. fwiw I think you're right. she needs to feed him more calorific and nutriant rich food (including meat) so the little he eats makes a bigger impact on him. poor wee soul.
I don't think her diet sounds healthy for anyone. meat is not unhealthy of itself. in fact good quality red meat once or twice a week is good for you - unless you eat lots of other iron food in its place which most people don't never mind children.

[Linguaphile]

Kids will eat if they get hungry enough. I think YABU, your friend sounds like she is trying her best to feed her child healthy food. Weighing him before and after is out of order I think.

[hsegfiugseskufh]

Kids will eat if they get hungry enough

clearly, as shown by this situation, they will not.

[SarahTancredi]

Given the way the the mum weighed him as well I'm.wondering if the poor kid has all these people weighing him regularly and he is worried about it.

Would also explain why he relaxed and ate loads at ops house until of course she weighed him too

[hazeyjane]

Ah right, chilledbee - it just seemed that 'cameras up bums' etc would only even be thought about if a child had bowel issues, reflux, chronic stomach issues....so if he doesn't have any of these things then there wouldn't be much point to them.

Dietician thinks he has a behavioural issue around food - are there any other concerns about behaviour or development from the professionals or your friend?

[ScreamingLadySutch]

PS Burgers (with lettuce tomato etc) are a fully balanced meal.

Remember that bolognaise ragu has tomato, onion, celery and carrots in it and is fully balanced.

[Cauliflowerpower]

I'm sorry you're getting a bit of a bashing here OP. I hope the convo goes well with your friend. Tell her what he ate and just add perhaps he just likes plain food and you're happy to have them for tea anytime. Also play up how well behaved he was in general...

[ScreamingLadySutch]

"Only on Mumsnet is spaghetti bolognaise the root of all evil and a child who was over 9.5lbs at birth dropping to 2nd centile in weight not seen as a potential concern. "

The amount of virtue signalling here is . Yes Mumsnet we all know you are awfully healthy, woke, global, multicultural and vair, vair superior,

but how about actually listening to the problem??? That food is too fibrous and low in fat and protein to adequately feed a child.

Your food is absolutely fine OP.

[CandyLeBonBon]

If this thread had read 'my friend insists on feeding her 5 year old a strict vegan diet and he looks like he's suffering from malnutrition'

there would be uproar. Because effectively, that's what's happening (yes, I realise it's not actually vegan. It's an example)

Kids are all different and just because some kids have more adventurous palates than others, doesn't make the OP's concerns any less valid.

The virtue signalling on here is bizarre and eye-roll worthy.

Fgs if the kids won't eat the food she's making and she's forcing her child to follow her ethical food choices IN SPITE OF CLEARLY NOT LIKING IT, then that's a cause for concern.

Like I say, People would be up in arms on here if a child was being fed a vegan diet that he didn't like or want to eat.

If he's underweight and with nutrient deficiencies it's a problem.

Oh and to a pp with a child on 15th centile for weight and 2nd for height - that sounds like a disparity I'd be concerned about too!

[CandyLeBonBon]

X post @ScreamingLadySutch and well put!

[SarahTancredi]

If he's underweight and with nutrient deficiencies it's a problem
No one has said that isnt a problem. But I really dont think that drs would he contemplating invasive tests if all he needed was a kebab ffs.

10 days and this poster thinks shes an expert on this child. To the extent she was bloody weighing him to try and prove a point.

Kids survive on fresh air and manage to not have deficiencies. There could well be an.underlying course . Like coeliac for instance. In which case ops burger bun and pasta binge would have caused irreparable damage.

Drs are away..health visitors are aware. Why don't we leave it to them instead of deciding you know.best with a tub of ice crean

[CandyLeBonBon]

@SarahTancredi try reading the OP's update!

[SarahTancredi]

I have read the update. And its possible that they are adding fats and oils to the food. Shes not 100 percent sure what the other deficiencies are so theres probably plenty of other stuff that she doesnt know.

Frankly if she was my friend and was this majorly invested in my child whilst simultaneously using my.absence to validate her opinions I'd be telling her nothing more tbh.

It was 10days.. .. hardly enough time or evidence to suggest shes find some.miravle cure for all the problems

[SarahTancredi]

And behavioural issues around food can be caused by many things.

Such as obsessions with how much or how little a kid eats. Food being a huge focus which given there is medical intervention here that could well explain it. He had 10 days "off" when he went to stay with op I til the last thing she did was way him herself.. that really could have back fired. We wont know will we.

And also kids can be picky and nervous if they are used to feeling a bit crappy after eating. Which could indicate there is a problem here like an.intolerance or whatever. Again it's possible the change of scenery and distraction temporarily solved the problem.


Yes its possible the mum.could be batshit I've not said other wise I just think the op comes across as smug and superior and more concerned with being proven right than the actual child

[RaininSummer]

Have red most of the thread but in response to the latest update and opening for convo, I would be inclined to say (non-judgmentally) that it must have been the different types of food and then drop in that he did seem to really enjoy the spag bol etc. It is up to friend what she then does does with that info.

[RaininSummer]

An 'a' for the pedants (of which I am one)

[ChilledBee]

@Mummyoflittledragon

We ended up speaking about it all. She is willing to expand the food a bit and eat round mine more often to see if it just the fact that my kids are here so he copies them. He apparently said to her that "the food CB makes doesn't hurt my bum when I poo", so she had already considered toning down the spice a bit. I even told her that I weighed him too. He hasn't been constipated. He wasn't when he was here either. I realise you didn't ask about that but it was mentioned earlier!

@hazeyjane

No concerns otherwise. He's as bright as a button. He can read well! Well, he does go to bed at 7 and you have to wake him up to get ready at 7. On weekends, he sleeps about 14 hours if he isn't woken accidentally or purposely. Maybe that's coincidental though. That's something the GP and dietician associate with his anaemia but apparently it isn't that uncommon at his age. Especially as he's never napped in the day since about 1.5yrs.

@SarahTancredi

The doctors/specialists aren't considering invasive tests at this point. They've suggested some dietary changes quite firmly but my friend is genuinely worried it is a medical issue and wants to go down that route sooner rather than later. She is of course worried about his weight it is just that as she has always eaten like she does now and breastfed him, she didn't consider that the food isn't agreeing with him. Particularly the spice.

[tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz]

That's a great start OP

[SarahTancredi]

Well chilled I'm glad your friend is ok with you. I do also hope that you discussed it in a better way than you did on here . Whether or not you meant to you didnt come across well.

I still think, as even you said that there were possible behaviour issues that weighing could have seriously back fired. As in if your place was almost like a safe place where food wasnt an issue and he didnt get weighed, then you ruined that at the end.

I also still think that eating that much and if that different a food could also have been a bit risky especially as you had/have no idea if there were any medical issues there. There still.might be. As I said before gaining and losing weight should he done slowly and sensibly.

I am glad that there seems to he some.progreas and a good outcome so far here though.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

That’s really positive. Maybe it would be the right time to invite her and her ds over to dinner. (Seeing as he seemed to enjoy eating with the family). Id have a which meal would be the most palatable to her and serve.

My dh likes spicier foods. He has a bottle of Tabasco and adds spice to meals. If she agrees to coming over, you could produce a bottle for her to put some on her meal as she may find your cooking too bland.

I’m not a great lover of the eat well plate. But perhaps it could be an indicator for her. However, it sounds as though her ds could do with full fat milk etc atm. I think the main thing is her ds needs to eat and eat until he is full.

[Tensixtysix]

Back in the early 80s my brother was taken away on the GP's diagnosis that my mum was starving him!
They kept him in hospital for a couple of weeks and fed him loads and he still didn't put much weight on.
It was all down to genetics, we as a family were very skinny before the age of 30.
My own mum never weighed more than 7 stone, but the GP was biased straight away as she was bi-polar.
I myself was always 8 stone and only started to put on weight once I went on the pill and then after my first pregnancy...
Bam! and the weight piled on, lol!
But back in those days, no one seemed to notice that we were skin and bones as our parents were as well.
We ate well enough, we just didn't snack much.
I'd say something.

[AlbertWinestein]

I wouldn’t worry OP. Your friend will probably log onto MN at some point and read how her child’s very identifiable welfare has been splashed all over the internet for complete strangers to discuss and that, while she was in hospital with her Mum, you were happily weighing her son. At which point, you probably won’t have a friend anymore to worry about.