To Tell Friend To Feed Her Child Properly

[ChilledBee]

I have a friend with a four year old son. He's very small for his age and her HV and GP have made suggestions about how to change this. She isn't vegan but eats meat seldom and only shops organic and local. She makes these dishes which are foreign type stews with things like aubergine and squash (I eat/cook these things too) and will sprinkle some feta or another cheese on top. Or something with spinach and lentils. It isn't awful but for an acquired taste. My DH says it Italy seems like a side dish and he is waiting for the joint of slow cooked meat and some potatoes to accompany it. Any meat is organic/free range butcher ordered so very expensive and rarely eaten. She is very much into ethical shopping/farming/eating.

The trouble is, when I see the vegetables,they are often old (she gets a lot of home grown produce from her own allotment or that of friends) so I imagine the nutrients are depleted. Her son barely eats any of the food she gives him and she does worry about that because he's not only small but has some vitamin deficiencies too. But she thinks it has something else going on rather then he just doesn't like the food she makes.

Last week, she had to unfortunately stay in hospital for several days (10) with her mother who was touch and go. Her son stayed with me and even though it was something completely unfamiliar, he settled in well. She gave no dietary instructions so I just fed him like I do my own kids (3,3 and 1) on home cooked meals cooked from scratch (spaghetti bolognese,shepherds pie, burgers and chips) and he wolfed it down. In fact, the first day he came he had seconds and ice cream and jelly afterwards (pudding isn't routine in our house). I am embarrassed to say that I weighed him that night and the day before he went home. He gained 5lbs! My DH felt that I was out of order weighing him but I have to say that seeing him eat like that made me want to prove something I'd suspected all along.

I want to tell her that her son badly needs to eat food he likes and is healthy for a child. She often refers to childhood obesity but I think she underestimates the amount of fat and carbs a growing child needs. I know she feels quite isolated by her HV and GP who have sort of threatened her with SS (she says) but won't refer her for the medical investigations she wants. Her sister had 'failure to thrive' and was later found to have cerebral palsy which contributed to this but it isn't a hereditary condition which could explain her son's small stature. My DH doesn't think she is mentally stable. I think she is precious at best.

Would you say something?

[Cryalot2]

Its a difficult one. But as you say his gp and hv are concerned, so that means there is a problem. Normally when this happens the child is monitored .
I appreciate your welfare an care for the child and I wish you weĺl in trying to help.

[DoctorAllcome]

OP- how do you know the child is medically underweight?

[Jellybeansincognito]

@AstridAsterson of course it’s a huge problem, nobody denied that. The recipes themselves aren’t the issue though.
Children aren’t starving because food is too rich.

[ChilledBee]

She uses a lot of root vegetables that are stored through the year.

I know some kids can eat complex flavours, but this one,like a lot of kids, seems not to like them. Not spicy foods anyway.

She told me about them threatening SS. I don't think they have involved them. She's seen a dietician who did suggest she relax her rules a bit and let him eat what he likes but she told them he doesn't seem to like anything much apart from veggie sticks and hummus. But he's gone off hummus now so just eats the stocks of celery and carrot. That's something I also give my kids but I wouldn't if they wouldn't eat a decent meal at least 2x a day.

My friend has told me most of this as it has been ongoing for about a year or so.

[MRex]

I had something similar OP, YANBU, Shepherds pie and lasagne are perfectly healthy for a child, especially home cooked and stuffed with veg, under 5s need more fat in their diet than adults. In my case she was forever giving this very underweight child carrot sticks and rice cakes as snacks instead of more calorific food in proper meals; fine for an (overweight) adult but just doesn't meet DC needs. Although she'd seen a dietician they didn't do much, just sort of shrugged that the DC didn't like much food and talked about more dates to check weight as well as advice to feed lots when the DC would eat something.

I did what seems to be a minority opinion and tried to engineer situations to let the mother see her DC eating my food. She started to regularly take away a pot of two of leftovers, as well as ask about the recipes, and it gave her ideas of what her DC would eat. I also tried sharing my issues of getting enough carbs into DS, to encourage her to chat about portion sizes and the higher levels of fat/carbs. She loves her DC and wants the best for them, while not fully sorted things are now better and her DC at least gets lots of options of things to eat. So, that's the approach I suggest.

[quitecontrary123]

YABVU to weigh him not just once but twice! You're meals were not superior to his normal diet and you need to back off.

[PrincessHoneysuckle]

She sounds very selfish to me,giving him food that she likes and that she wants to consume.If he doesnt like them then what's wrong with homemade veg soup with wholemeal bread or jacket potatoes with tuna salad or vegetables etc.If he doesnt like spices etc she should be accommodating him at that age imo.

[Napqueen1234]

I think the tone of your post heading ‘tell my friend to feed her child properly’ comes across as v judgemental as does a lot of your comment. There is definitely a way for a sensitive friend to broach the issue of a child’s diet in a supportive and caring way although (no offence) it sounds like you might find this difficult. By sitting with her and saying you’ve noticed she’s struggling, something you did notice while he stayed with you is he ate lots of X,Y and Z and if she was keen for him to put on weight to possibly incorporate that into the diet? Maybe ‘he loved home made spag Bol, happy to give you the recipe I’m sure you could sub in quorn mince but he wolfed it down so would be an easy meal to make again’. Don’t slag off her food just say how well he ate yours. I disagree with posters saying how horrendous your feed is if all home cooked but he probably could do with more veg as part of the diet too.

[hsegfiugseskufh]

You're meals were not superior to his normal diet and you need to back off

But they were, because he ate.

The problem is that he isnt eating. His mum could be making the most nutritionally complete meals but it matters not a shit if he isnt eating it.

[AstridAsterson]

@AstridAsterson of course it’s a huge problem, nobody denied that. The recipes themselves aren’t the issue though.
Children aren’t starving because food is too rich

My original comment was to someone saying: 'what do you think the 'foriegn children' do without a burger and chips.' Well, in subsaharan Africa, lots of children die due to malnutrition because of the food available.

I don't know what the second part of your comment means. But the OP's friend is clearly restricting certain foods (red meat) and substituting with vegetable based stews that are seasoned to an adults taste. This is not acceptable. I imagine she's doing it through ignorance rather than malice, but the child is still suffering.

[Cheeserton]

You fed him jelly and ice cream, burgers and chips, then weighed him and found he'd piled weight on?

Wow. No, her diet is much better. You, like many of us, eat too much meat and sugar.

[user1480880826]

I would be worried for your friend’s kid too. As others have suggested, invite them both over for a meal and show her how much he’ll eat of a meal like spag bol. Comment on how well he ate when he was at your house.

[hsegfiugseskufh]

No, her diet is much better

Even though her child is hungry most of thr time because he doesnt eat?

[ethelfleda]

I'm a medic, I've worked in Sub-saharan Africa. Pretending that malnutrition isn;t a huge problem there is ridiculous. One of the reasons is that the food available that people can afford tends not to have energy and nutrient dense foods (dairy, red meat) that children in particular need. The reasons people can't access it are complex, but pretending the diet people living in abject poverty eat is superior because it doesn't contain a burger or chips ios grossly offensive

Are you hard of understanding?
Where did anyone say a diet in a country suffering from high malnutrition was superior?
The point is, malnutrition isn’t caused by lack of burger and chips. It’s caused by climate, geopolitics and any other number of things... but NOT because of a lack of shepherds pie.

[ChilledBee]

We have veg with every meal as a side dish.

My 3 year olds are on the 50th and 30th centile I think (one is adopted, not twins). My 1 year old is on the 25th. I'm in the overweight category BMI wise (hence why I don't always eat what the kids eat). Hubby is too.

[MamaFlintstone]

Only on Mumsnet is spaghetti bolognaise the root of all evil and a child who was over 9.5lbs at birth dropping to 2nd centile in weight not seen as a potential concern.

Competitive undereating now extends to people’s children too I see.

OP, I would tell her how much he loved x, y and z meal and I like the suggestion of inviting them both round for tea a few times. More than that risks jeopardising your friendship, I think. Hopefully if his weight has been noticed by health professionals they’ll get a referal to a nutritionist or something.

[AstridAsterson]

Are you hard of understanding?

Well, one of us is, and it's not me....

[HepzibahGreen]

I agree with you Astrid
I grew up on Middle eastern/North African/Mediterranean food-lots of lentil soups, chick peas, vegetables yes. But also lamb, cheese, pastry and buckets of rice haha.
I think OPS comments about "foreign " are a bit odd but I also don't think spag bol or shepherds pie are at all unhealthy for a small child. My spaghetti bolognaise is lean beef, carrots, celery, onions, garlic, tomato, beef stock, red wine. What's unhealthy about that? (Ok maybe the wine!) Minced beef? Christ if my kid is half starved some fatty red meat is just what he needs. But this is MN where people think fruit is unhealthy, so....
People all over the world save the chicken skin, the pork crackling, the fat off the lamb etc for their children because they need it. Poor boy sounds like he needs feeding up.

[ChilledBee]

My husband does think she has mental health issues for other reasons but sees this as another indication. I think she is precious.

[RibenaMonsoon]

Why are people berating spag bol!?
Iron in the beef (okay there are lots of other foods that are more iron rich but it's not a complete waste of calories if its a low fat one)
Tomatoes, grated carrot, courgette, peppers, mushrooms. You can chuck so many different veggies in a spag bol. It's DS favourite meal. I can easily get at least 2 of his seven a day in there. Usually more.

Wholemeal pasta Is best but does white pasta suddenly turn the dish into a contributor of obesity?

I think, made well, the dishes OP served can be extremely healthy. Depends on how you make it. I think there are some really harsh comments here.

My DS won't touch anything that's got chilli or paprika in it. So I make the dishes without them, dish it up to him and then add the spices afterwards for myself and DH. Could your friend not do something like that?

[Graphista]

For starters YOUR idea of what constitutes healthy food actually isn't necessarily! White carbs, red meat, few veg is not healthy. Also weird that you think you can tell nutritional content from LOOKING at a vegetable! Organic/home grown/locally sourced veg is actually likely to be MORE nutritious. Supermarket veg is heavily manipulated to look how consumers THINK "good" veg should look but it's not particularly nutritious. Much of it has been stored/transported AGES ago but because of certain "tricks" it looks fresh.

For another (coming from someone with LOTS of experience looking after other people's kids inc as a nanny and cminder) children will often eat better at someone else's partly out of politeness (reluctant to say no) and partly because DIFFERENT food can be appealing purely because it's different - novelty value.

There are reasons for concern but it sounds as if GP and HV are on the case.

But if you stick your oar in she doesn't need to have any more to do with you if she doesn't wish to.

Whereas currently you MIGHT be able to gently influence her to do better if you offend her and she takes umbrage then you have no influence anyway.

Also maybe there IS something wrong with her child?

I have a dd who is very very slim and eats me out of house and home! She has a disability that wasn't diagnosed until she was nearly 12 that means she has a high metabolism, plus her body is constantly working really hard to keep her mobile and dealing with the pain she's in every day in addition to the growing aspect - which is also affected by her disability, she's very tall and still growing. Another issue is that she can't manage to eat a "big" meal in one go because of how this affects her stomach due to her disability. So she is a grazer as that suits her body better, so she effectively has 5-6 small meals per day plus snacks.

I had grief from certain quarters (including Drs and HV and especially ex - which was a pisstake as he barely fed her when he had her and when I'd get her back from his she'd often lost significant amounts of weight!)

I did umpteen food diaries (inc amounts) and had many "discussions" about it until we got the diagnosis.

It's really frustrating knowing you are feeding your child plenty and good food but being regarded with suspicion by others.

And as a vegetarian of over 30 years who has been both slim and overweight AND who has gestated, given birth to and bf for almost 10 months while veggie I get mightily pissed off at the WRONG assumption that only a diet with meat at least once if not twice a day can be healthy/sufficient! I WISH being veggie automatically meant slim and healthy!

Not to mention the "foreign" comment - wtf!!

And before some bright spark tries to equate that with dds condition, her disability is genetic. Just bad luck her dad and I both carriers but not (to the best of my knowledge) sufferers. If anything I'm pretty sure my sister, dad and aunt were/are undx with the same condition for a variety of reasons but don't suffer as badly as dd unfortunately does.

"You don't gain 5 lbs of healthy weight in a week!" I completely agree! Especially at that age! That'd be a helluva weight gain for an adult!

"Shepherds pie & bolognese are healthy aren't they?" Depends very much on quality of ingredients and how they were made - there's HUGE variation!

Eg if my mum made them there'd be no vegetables in them except for a tiny amount of tomatoes in the bolognese sauce and the meat would tend to the more fatty and the pasta would be white pasta. The potato topping on the shepherds pie would also have loads of butter and salt and probably cheese on top too. The spag Bol proportions would be about 3 X as much pasta as sauce and there'd be a hefty amount of (cheddar) cheese on that too. Dd loves eating at grans sometimes but acknowledges if she ate there all the time she'd be huge! Mum and dad both overweight, mum always has been and dad became so when he retired from his manual job but kept eating the same.

Whereas if I made meat version for my omni dd the shepherds pie would have not too fatty meat in, there'd also be peas, onions and carrots in the mince mix and nowhere near as much butter in the mash and no cheese.

Spag Bol again not fatty meat, tomatoes, peppers and onion in the sauce (a lot more herbs and far less salt too), there'd be about equal amounts of pasta to sauce if not more sauce than pasta and the pasta would be wholewheat. A little Parmesan on top but not loads.

My mums a lovely cook in terms of taste but she is very much of her generation (she's in her 70's) in terms of her beliefs on nutrition. She developed type 2 diabetes a few years back and I'll give her dues she's put it in remission by changing her diet - to a degree. But mainly smaller portions rather than changing how she cooks (except we did finally get her to stop frying in lard!)

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Odd that there's another thread about a concerned poster worried for her friend's child's diet/lack of food.

Are you just waiting for accolades or something? If you were truly worried, you wouldn't need to ask. I don't think you're shy OP, you weighed her child and your 5lb claim seems like an unwarranted boast.

Your husband has more finesse than you.

[Celebelly]

Her diet could be the healthiest diet on the planet but if her child isn't eating it then it's pointless. But at least she can say she cooks healthy food and be smug about it while her son picks at it and probably ends up having a dysfunctional relationship with food as an adult as he was never allowed anything he actually enjoyed and would properly eat as a child and spent his childhood feeling hungry.

You just need to look at threads on here to see that a) a lot of children won't eat food like that and it's not anything the parents have done, some kids just turn out to be picky eaters. Sometimes it's a phase, sometimes not, sometimes it's related to ASD, sometimes it's just who they are and b) children are not dogs. They won't just 'eat it when they're hungry enough'. Children will and do refuse to eat to extents that they become underweight and unwell.

[Runbitchrun]

You weighed someone else’s child at the beginning and end of their stay with you? Oh do fuck off. If that’s real, you’re a lunatic, and that’s more abusive than what this lady is feeding her son.