To Tell Friend To Feed Her Child Properly

[ChilledBee]

I have a friend with a four year old son. He's very small for his age and her HV and GP have made suggestions about how to change this. She isn't vegan but eats meat seldom and only shops organic and local. She makes these dishes which are foreign type stews with things like aubergine and squash (I eat/cook these things too) and will sprinkle some feta or another cheese on top. Or something with spinach and lentils. It isn't awful but for an acquired taste. My DH says it Italy seems like a side dish and he is waiting for the joint of slow cooked meat and some potatoes to accompany it. Any meat is organic/free range butcher ordered so very expensive and rarely eaten. She is very much into ethical shopping/farming/eating.

The trouble is, when I see the vegetables,they are often old (she gets a lot of home grown produce from her own allotment or that of friends) so I imagine the nutrients are depleted. Her son barely eats any of the food she gives him and she does worry about that because he's not only small but has some vitamin deficiencies too. But she thinks it has something else going on rather then he just doesn't like the food she makes.

Last week, she had to unfortunately stay in hospital for several days (10) with her mother who was touch and go. Her son stayed with me and even though it was something completely unfamiliar, he settled in well. She gave no dietary instructions so I just fed him like I do my own kids (3,3 and 1) on home cooked meals cooked from scratch (spaghetti bolognese,shepherds pie, burgers and chips) and he wolfed it down. In fact, the first day he came he had seconds and ice cream and jelly afterwards (pudding isn't routine in our house). I am embarrassed to say that I weighed him that night and the day before he went home. He gained 5lbs! My DH felt that I was out of order weighing him but I have to say that seeing him eat like that made me want to prove something I'd suspected all along.

I want to tell her that her son badly needs to eat food he likes and is healthy for a child. She often refers to childhood obesity but I think she underestimates the amount of fat and carbs a growing child needs. I know she feels quite isolated by her HV and GP who have sort of threatened her with SS (she says) but won't refer her for the medical investigations she wants. Her sister had 'failure to thrive' and was later found to have cerebral palsy which contributed to this but it isn't a hereditary condition which could explain her son's small stature. My DH doesn't think she is mentally stable. I think she is precious at best.

Would you say something?

Oh and Worcester sauce of course

I find it weird that you weighed the child to see if he would gain weight. It’s like you did it to proof your point.

And aside from the iron and vitamins deficiency what other health problems does he have?

Well done OP for looking after this child while your friend was in need. It's a very difficult situation you are in but I would prioritise a child's health over a friendship every time. I would talk to your friend very gently and carefully. I agree on the whole your friends diet is great if it is being eaten etc. Also there is nothing wrong with burgers and chips every now and then especially with a child that needs some weight. Children need feeding and I say this as a mother with a child on a very low centile under a dietician due to food allergies. I think your first steps are to speak to your friend. Could you offer to have him for dinner a couple of night a week to see if his eating improves in a different situation? Last resort for me would be contacting the health visitor. Best of luck.

I think other posters have ignored the fact that the HV and GP have expressed concerns. The little boy obviously loves some foods - but the foods in his home aren't palatable for him.

I would talk to your friend tactfully. What about the boy's father? Is he involved? Could you speak to him?

If she really is a friend you have to make an effort to find a way to communicate with her and be very tactful about letting her know her son ate your food with gusto. I don't agree with other posters about the relative merits of the diets. If he really dislikes the diet and home and he is malnourished - you mentioned vitamin deficiencies - he is in trouble and needs help. If I were the mum and didn't have major psych issues I would listen to you gratefully. Is she orthorexic?

You also took the little boy in for 10 days in your own home. You're obviously very supportive.

Don't give up. Remember that tragic little boy who was starved? Keep asking questions to her and his dad and grandma (if you know her) and if you get really worried I'd call social services, or write to their GP expressing concerns about his diet.

That is ridiculous, BlueCornishPixie.

I use mince from the butcher slithy.which is probs about 20% fat, but then I am a menace to public health! ( plus it's the fat what makes it tasty..)

My kids are like whippets in case anyone is worried about the obesity crisis

No food should be labelled as good or bad for children, it’s just food. They need a lot of it and we, as parents need to provide it.
That's it

I think other posters have ignored the fact that the HV and GP have expressed concerns.

Of course they have since it doesn't fit the narrative of OP being a fat,unhealthy cow that has no idea what a healthy child is and is just being an interfering dick.

You asked if we would say something. Yes, I probably would.

But I'm not sure you're the person for the job. I have to say that seeing him eat like that made me want to prove something I'd suspected all along is a cold and cruel thing; it seems like you have stopped being her friend and drifted onto your high horse.

Hopefully you can pull it back to a point where you can gently let her know that her boy likes other dishes, and suggest that she adapt her son's meals to a lower spice and higher fat/carb version of her own.

But if you your DH are speculating about her mental health then you're probably long past the point of an equal friendship.

I accidently clicked yanbu.
The child is being provided with plenty of healthy food. He couldn't dislike everything he's being offered. Children can be fussy. They can refuse food. But at the end of the day they are programmed to survive. Children won't let themselves starve. He will eat what he needs from the food he's offered. He's 2nd centile. He's not below the chart.

But @BlueCornsihPixie but the child didn’t go home afterwards, he lived with OP for a week, according to her eating everything happily and gained weight.

While it doesn’t definitely rule out a medical condition, it makes the things you’ve suggested much less likely.

Parents can be very weird with food their children eat and disordered eating is unfortunately real and pervasive and not uncommon. I have suffered with it myself but fortunately pre children and am well over it now.

I would be concerned with the fact that the HCPs have apparently threatened to involve SS. That would surely suggest that they have done reasonable investigations and come to a similar conclusion that diet is the main issue?

I can't believe people read the OP and decided to contribute 'her food is healthier than yours'

The boy doesn't eat the healthy food, OP, you are right to worry. Since the HV and GP are concerned, imo he should be given food he will eat.

I have an incredibly fussy child, and have to work in the healthy foods into dishes that, on the face of it, are considered bad. Chopped veg into spaghetti (brown pasta), sliced veg into instant noodles etc. I also give DS a multivitamin because he won't touch fish. I think if your friend was really concerned, she'd have found a way to feed him so he wasn't vitamin deficient or needing HV/GP involvement. It wouldn't be fair on this boy for things to carry on as they have, he obviously will eat food he likes.

"because something the HV and GP has said is increasing his protein intake with meat" really!? Sorry I was quite sceptical to begin with now I'm very cynical about how genuine your info is!

"and I wanted to give her general perspective on her lifestyle diet wise" you hardly seem qualified! Your own ideas while different to hers are not accurate or knowledgable!

"Oh and the recipes she uses are usually from other countries. She eats a lot of North and East African food as she travelled there a few times" and??? Completely irrelevant! Your comments of this kind smack of racism and snobbery to be honest!

"The recipes are for an acquired taste that he hasn't acquired" in YOUR opinion!

"I usually like it but it isn't something I'd have eaten as a child." Literally MILLIONS of children are raised on spicy food as soon as they're weaned! Does them no harm at all! Spicy foods are one of dds favourites and have been since she was tiny.

"and enjoy adult food away from my kids" no such thing as "adult" food and "kids" food, Brits seem to be rather peculiar in thinking this to be the case.

My dd has never liked chips or chocolate anyway (she couldn't explain when younger we now know they irritate her gums and stomach), soon as we were at weaning stage she had whatever we (my ex is omni) were having, depending what I was cooking depended if she had veggie, meat, fish or what. I don't cook with additional salt anyway so I didn't have to worry about that and I've never really been one for ready made sauces either. So it was easy to do. Harder when out and about and especially as she got a bit older as she didn't like the "chips with everything" offerings in most places for kids and many places are really bloody awkward about the idea of just doing a child's portion of the adult meals. Which is ridiculous!

"No harm in mentioning it to your hv as a concern. She can then advise you whether to butt out or how you can help."
The HV actually had NO BUSINESS discussing this child or the mother with op, that'd be a massive breach of confidentiality

"Well, I'm pretty sure the rate of starvation and malnutrition is higher in North and East Africa than in the UK" IF that's true (is it?!) I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with WHAT is eaten there but general scarcity of food which can be for a variety of reasons. YOUR comment is the ridiculous one!

"The GP and HV are also concerned." Bear in mind we only have op's word for that. I never assume ops are automatically honest and accurate.

As for kids not liking vegetable stews when dd was little and having a day where she had little appetite or had been poorly one of the dishes I knew was pretty much guaranteed to be eaten was ratatouille, another was my veggie chilli.

"I'd like to know if you and your family are a healthy weight OP?" Iirc op did say they were "chubby", not sure about rest of family and quite honestly not sure I'd believe op if they said they were all healthy weight with no nutritional issues anyway.

"My husband does think she has mental health issues for other reasons but sees this as another indication. I think she is precious." Oh ffs!! Now we got a trifecta of bigotry! Snobbery, racism/xenophobia AND disability discrimination! What a delight you are op!!

"graphista the most nutritious veg is the frozen variety apparently!" Of bought veg yes that's true for certain veg - peas in particular. Not because frozen is better but because of retailed veg this type is preserved very quickly after harvesting with no real processing involved. But if op's friend is using home grown/local organic veg then that is also likely very fresh when bought/used. Tomatoes are actually best consumed cooked in terms of accessing nutritional content. Tinned tomatoes are apparently the most nutritious, because certain nutrients in tomatoes are "released" and more easily absorbed by the human body AFTER they've been cooked.

But at the end of the day they are programmed to survive. Children won't let themselves starve.

Bullshit!! All DD ate for two weeks were an ice cream and a bad of pom bears a day,which I encouraged her to eat so at least she had something.

Then I had to reintroduce every single fucking thing including toast and she hated it all.

She wouldn't even eat things like pancakes .

Just came here to say I want to defend cottage/shepherd's pie! If you use good mince and make a gravy from scratch and serve with veg, how is it unhealthy?! Don't demonize red meat.

Literally MILLIONS of children are raised on spicy food as soon as they're weaned!
Read the posts from said former children explaining how most cultures dial it down for kids, add yogurt etc.

Your posts have an unpleasant whiff of racism, barely undisguised glee at weight gain while in your care, and really what comes acrosss is a general sense of smug judgment rather than genuine concern for the young boy. Mid you were to speak with the 'friend' like you post on this thread, that would be the end of the 'friendship'

You sound like a dick tbh, not a friend.

@Josephinebettany children will starve themselves. I was one and I will do the same as an adult. Saying children won't starve themselves and will eat when hungry led to me not eating for a week as a child and being force fed on multiple occasions which made me vomit.

OP's mistake was mentioning the food he eats and it's provenience.

Everyone is focusing on that and how amazing the food is and ignoring the fact that a 9 lb baby is now on the 2nd centile,he's not thriving,he needs supplements and is anaemic his mum is worried (but looking at medical reasons) as are GP and HV.

Even if OP is an idiot and a liar, the easiest step is to change the kid's diet and see if there are any positive changes. It's not rocket science. So why isn't the mum doing it? If he's still not thriving that would be further evidence he needs further investigations.

@Graphista

It would be lovely food if he ate it. He doesn't eat it. So whether or not other kids like spicy foods is irrelevant. I only know this is an issue because a year ago they were worried that he had gone from the 91st centile at birth and has now dropped to the 2md centile.

He is having packed lunch at school.

The burgers were pork so not red meat.

I remember when was dc1 was about 1 years old and I kept reading advice on leaflets the HV gave me about how you can stop full fat milk when toddlers start eating meals. I was so stupid and naive, I switched to semi skimmed and dd started losing weight...I still blame myself for her petite size now. She was on skimmed milk for nearly a year until my sister saw me giving her semi skimmed and basically shouted at me. Even though dd was being given meals and dairy, she wasn’t getting enough nutrients obviously and as with your first child you follow all the advice you’re given.

I’m so glad I started fat milk again because she did get better, but she was really small for her age up until age 10.

My other 2 kids have had full fat milk everyday since babyhood and they’re both above target for their age.

There is no such thing as unhealthy food for children. They need everything full fat, but varied to get the full injection of proteins carbs, calcium etc. I do wonder if the NHS still give the switching to semi skimmed milk advice now? This was about 10/11 years ago.

One thing for sure - OP won’t need to tell his mum he’s put on 5lb - as a 4 year old on the 2nd centile it’s something in the region of a 5th or 6th of his entire body weight. An obscene increase for such a short period.