How long do you stay cross when they've behaved really badly?

[HRTea]

How long do you stay cross and off with your kids if they've been really naughty? My soon to be 9 year old behaved incredibly badly earlier. We were all supposed to head out to meet friends for lunch but when we had to change plans about which restaurant to go to my youngest (DS8) totally kicked off and refused to go. Screaming, getting under the bed etc. No deep reason, just claims not to like the food there (he does). It went on for half an hour at which point my DH and eldest went without us. I was furious with my son and really let rip, told him no iPad for a week - and fully intend to see it through.

Inevitably he's remorseful now but I've been extremely off to him. Not ignoring him completely but he made his own lunch and has been trying to hug me, write me notes, give me his teddy etc. I've told him I'm not interested and whilst I'm answering direct questions I'm not chatting to him, playing a game with him or showing any interest. How long do you generally keep it up? (I have to admit after a while it gets hard). As I say, the no iPad or snack rule is staying for a week regardless - he did did something similar a few weeks ago and clearly hasn't learned a lesson so I need to see this through.

My husband is also furious and will be back soon so it's going to be a fun afternoon

And it’s jnteresting you think this is really naughty behaviour

My dd would react like that to a venue change or to any sudden change of plans, she is possibly ASD and needs to know what to expect.

It sounds like your son had a meltdown which is something he can't control so punishing it is pointless.

I've worked on helping my dd regulate her emotions but it's a work in progress tbh.

I can understand your frustration but to carry on punishing him when he is clearly feeling like shit for something most likely out of his control is unfair and harsh.

You are massively overreacting but probably always have which is why at 8 he has not being taught how to regulate his emotions

That's a really good point. Mum can't make herself react appropriately to her child so ignores him. Dad is still furious hours later and mum fully expects him to make the afternoon hell. And AN EIGHT YEAR OLD is supposed to know not to tantrum when something is happening he doesn't like. Where was he supposed to learn that from? I think everyone in the house needs to work on their emotional health. Calm the fuck down and learn to speak to each other properly.

If DD (similar age) had kicked off about going somewhere... I would have sympathised "yes, it is rotten when you have to go somewhere you don't want to", worked on the reasons "you don't like the food? OK they have [food child likes] do you want that?" given clear instructions, "I don't expect you to like it but I do expect you to go". and set proper boundaries, "we are leaving in 20 minutes, you need to be ready or [consequence]" If it's a natural consequence so much the better.

This child did behave badly and I totally support the Mother. I would make my displeasure known to him and I would carry out the punishment.
I hope the Father comes home and gives the child a stern telling off and let it be known he spoilt the day out for the whole family. Why should a 8 year old who should know better have quality time alone with his Mother after what he done.
I feel alot of you are asking for trouble, hugging your children after they have done wrong even if they do say sorry.

I would talk to him and move on, but you absolutely must stick with the stated consequence. So no iPad this week.

Jeschara yes, hugging children who add remorseful and sorry always ends badly

We had a basic family rule of "don't let the sun go down on your anger". This worked well for us and doesn't seem to have caused any ongoing behavioural issues. Has also been really good for dh and me as a couple, that this is the general family expectation.

But in a case where a child is clearly remorseful and is trying to show it, I would not hold out against them, I really can't see that doing any good.

I feel alot of you are asking for trouble, hugging your children after they have done wrong even if they do say sorry.

What's wrong with them getting a hug, then sitting down to talk about how this isn't going to happen again and why? If they feel your love, they are massively more likely to want to do as you say.

You have abused your child today, OP.

Just putting it very clearly for you.

Ignoring his attempts to make amends (for something it doesn't sound like he had a great deal of control over), telling him you're 'not interested' - how horrible, how cold - using food as a punishment (also , tbh) and all in complete control of yourself (you ask how long to 'keep it up' for), not that there would be any possible excuse for this. And perhaps (reading between the lines) threatening him with your husband's anger too. Ugh.

You have abused your child today.

Time for you to be making amends.

I feel alot of you are asking for trouble, hugging your children after they have done wrong even if they do say sorry.

Yes, you should always string it out as long as possible - make them sweat and feel even worse. That's what being a good parent is all about eh? God forbid you should actually have a reasonable conversation about why their behaviour is unacceptable.

I think you are aware your hormones are affecting your response and making you feel more angry than you perhaps should. You have set quite a harsh punishment but none of us were there to see his behaviour so it is your decision whether a whole week is appropriate or not.

But I will go slightly against the grain of what a lot of people are saying and say it is ok to not immediately want to wrap them up, give them a cuddle and launch into a game after they have upset you. At a certain point and probably at around his age it is appropriate for children to understand that if you upset someone, whether they are a child or an adult, it will effect how that person feels afterwards and not necessarily be immediately dismissed and forgotten. So if he has hurt your feelings then it is ok to say you don't feel like playing and would like some quiet time while you are feeling upset. Actions have consequences, sometimes they are other people's feelings.

But it does sound like he has genuinely been trying to make up with you so I would be responsive to that if I were you, or it isn't teaching him to try to make amends after doing wrong.

I think it is ok not to want to hug and play a game straight away too. But I think it's really important that you tell the kid what you're doing and that you still love them, eg 'I'm still feeling really cross and disappointed that I missed out on a nice meal because of your behaviour. I love you and I will come and find you when I'm ready for a hug.' otherwise it's very confusing and upsetting. Tbh though I couldn't keep that up for long. A chat and a hug is not a reward, it's more like treatment imo.

I do it for as long as I actually feel angry for. So bw 5 min and half an hour. I dont think it does an older child any favours to think that "sorry" automatically wipes away another person's upset. Then again, I'm not really one to sulk or bear grudges.

'it is ok to not immediately want to wrap them up, give them a cuddle and launch into a game after they have upset you.'

I agree with that, but there's saying 'ds, I'm pretty cross with you at the moment, I think we need some time apart to calm down. Go to your room and read or play for a bit. We'll talk later' and there's rejecting apologies with an 'I'm not interested', refusing to make him lunch (!), refusing repeated attempts at physical contact.

No snack 'rule' as punishment for a week? Aside from withholding any affection, this is terrible to use food as punishment.

In this situation you should have explained why his behaviour was unnacceptable and moved on. Punishments lasting a week at this age are really excessive.

@CatteStreet @Simkin

I agree with both of you, that's how I would handle it too. But a lot of people on this thread do seem to think because she is an adult she should not let him know her feelings at all which I don't think is the case. Just that she has taken it too far in this case and rejected genuine olive branches.

Oh yes, Jeschara. You were such a good parent that you used withdrawal (and bestowal - you seem to have some kind of notion that a cuddle is a reward) of maternal affection as an instrument of discipline. I'm astonished you'll concede that there is 'nothing wrong with hugging a child'.

You are an emotionally abusive mother. What you are doing will have lasting impact on your son in terrible ways. Once he has calmed down and apologised, everything is back to normal (usually within 5 minutes)
Of course the punishment still remains, but please stop treating him like this. His punishment is "no ipad for a week", not "mum withdraws any emotional connection or love".

Source: I have a psychology degree, and have done independent research solely on childhood development. Please I am begging you, stop this.

Oh and yes I was a good parent my kids know right from wrong and when younger did not spoil days out for all.

Me too and nor did mine. I still managed it without sulking with my own children.

Marshmallow you may have a psychology degree, but telling somebody they ARE anything is not really an approved technique. Judge the behaviour not the mum...

What stands out a mile for me is the fact that this meltdown happened after a last minute change of plan. Some children with anxiety and SN simply cannot cope with last minute changes and it can provoke major anxiety attacks and distress. If they are punished for being distressed and their parent uses emotional abuse of this type, next time round the anxiety will be ten times worse.

OP, please have a think about whether your son generally shows anxiety around changes in routine, and think about what you can do to pre-empt him getting this distressed in future by preparing him carefully for any changes.

Oh yes cattle street I was. Don't know what the fuck you are going on about though. You just sound a right pratt.
Don't presume to know what I thought or think.
My kids are older well rounded happy and intelligent with strong minds of there own.

Is there any chance of proper counselling/ HRT for the menopause? (I've not been able to get either sadly). It's nearly broken me tbh and I've been a pretty bad parent at times.