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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Social services, police or keep my nose out of it

257 replies

hoxtonbabe · 14/09/2019 12:27

Hi, this is more a what should I do?

Back in July, I was getting ready with son for school, about 8.15am we heard lots of howling, crying, etc from somewhere at the back of our flat/garden. We then realised it was from one of the gardens opposite and that the parents of a girl aged around 4 had locked her out on the doorway/steps leading down to their garden. I’ve never really seen this family so thought it may have been an AirBnB???

The lady from the house who’s garden backs on to mine/opposite and is about 3 doors away from this family also heard the girl crying etc, and was asking if she was ok, where her mummy was etc but she just kept crying. I could see there were people in the flat, so realised it was a form of punishment after about 5 minutes of this i was about to call the police but then the mother came out, and although I couldn’t clearly hear what they were saying I could see the girl nodding yes, as the mother was calmly talking to her and then they went inside so I left it at that. I must add that the whole thing went on for about 15 mins in total, but initially I wasn’t focused on it as I was getting ready and thought it was just a child crying in general, but when it didn’t stop and was sounding more distressing that’s when I actually looked to see where it was coming from.

Roll on today, my son comes running into my bedroom saying that girl has been locked out again and she’s crying. Now I’m thinking this not a one off air bnb and this doesn’t seem right. Same as before, mum is in the house, girl is crying please let me in, mum then eventually let’s her back in.

Where I’m wavering is who do I call? My gut instinct is SS, or do I leave this family to discipline their child in the way they want ( even though she cries so loud most of us within a 10house radius can hear her ) whilst I’ve witnessed this twice in the space of 2 months, that’s not to say it hasn’t happened when I’ve been out.

They haven’t physically harmed her to my knowledge, and I supposed it’s an extreme version of a time out. Other than the foxes that are usually sunbathing on people’s deck chairs there is no chance of her getting taken, however if she was to get so distraught and Shuffled around she could fall down the metal stairs ( there is at least 10 steps).

OP posts:
JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 15/09/2019 19:25

We spoke with this family and were very close neighbours.

Really? You don’t even know exactly how many children she had.

Roozy123 · 15/09/2019 19:26

@JoxerGoesToStuttgart

I was 9!!!!! I'm now 33 I'm so sorry my memory can't take me back for EXACT details.

Please.... Keep on picking at my comments Wink

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 15/09/2019 19:26

The mum was very open with the fact SS were not involved in their life at all!?

Of course she’d have no reason to lie about that. People always tell others when they have SS involvement, don’t they?

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 15/09/2019 19:28

Oh you were 9?! A perfect confidant for a neglectful mother of 8. I’m sure you were privy to all the details aged 9. Grin

Roozy123 · 15/09/2019 19:29

@JoxerGoesToStuttgart

Have you never had anyone have a different opinion to yourself?
You seem very touchy about it?

Sparrowlegs248 · 15/09/2019 19:32

Having done child protection training last week, I think you should phone social services. As a pp has said, it may be part of a much bigger picture. Or it might not. You'll never know in all likelihood but it's people "minding their own business" that results in children being killed.

Sunshine93 · 15/09/2019 19:35

Hi op. A lot of mixed responses on here but I have to say I am surprised at the number of people that have said this is ok. If you discipline a child by "forcing" them to do something (i.e. you lock them out so they can't possibly get back in so you have forced them to be in time out) it's not discipline it's loss of control. A parent who is in control uses time out as a way of giving the child time to calm down and reflect on their behaviour. They should always have the ability to leave if they choose to. A parent in control knows that their child won't leave time out or if they do they will be placed back there. As soon as you lock them in/out you have lost control.

In my opinion this could be a sign of abuse. It could also be just really poor parenting and she may have only done it these two times in the child's life I would call nspcc for advice or call as. I think your gut feeling is that this is what you should do.

Sunshine93 · 15/09/2019 19:35

*as means SS!

Sunshine93 · 15/09/2019 19:38

Spikeyball do you lock your child in though? Because for me that's the difference here, the child is locked out.

Fightingbeing40 · 15/09/2019 19:40

I would phone and alert SS, you may not have witnessed physical abuse but this is emotional abuse. The child has no idea how long they will be left outside and is reliant on the adult coming to allow her back in, can only imagine the emotional distress this will cause her- child protection is everyone’s business! Imagine how you would feel if you didn’t report and there was more going on, this type of punishment does not sit well with me at all

HollysTeflonSeptum · 15/09/2019 19:42

This little girl was being punished, visibly and audibly for neighbours to witness, with a potentially dangerous set of steps there. She was locked out for an overly long amount of time imo. According to OP her parent just carried on despite her cries. I would wonder what happens to her as a punishment behind closed doors and if she's actually genuinely cared for.

Omgshefoundmeout class has nothing to do with child abuse. It's like addiction or disease I.e. it can happen to anyone. Have you read the Stately Homes threads?

tempnamechange98765 · 15/09/2019 19:46

My parents used to shut me in the poor as their version of the naughty step. Never scarred me for life. I use "the step" with my DS age 3, and although I stick to the recommended minute per age time, he could probably do with longer! And he howls and cries while on the step so I'm sure he sounds really distressed. I would keep my nose out.

tempnamechange98765 · 15/09/2019 19:47

*porch

Roozy123 · 15/09/2019 19:48

@tempnamechange98765
I remember my mum putting me and my siblings in the garden once or twice when we misbehaved at the dinner table "eat like animals you can eat outside with the animals" ... I remember just being pissed off there was no seats 😂
We grew up knowing how to act at a dinner table though lol

HollysTeflonSeptum · 15/09/2019 19:52

At least you were with your siblings Roozy.

Roozy123 · 15/09/2019 19:54

@HollysTeflonSeptum
I dunno if this made it better or worse lol.

(This story about me being in the garden I'm not comparing to the op- just light hearted.) My mum was probably sick of all 4 of us and wanted to eat alone lol.

(I joke I joke no-one ring the police on my mum lol)

JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 15/09/2019 19:59

Have you never had anyone have a different opinion to yourself?
You seem very touchy about it?

Grin uh huh.

welliesarefuntowear · 15/09/2019 20:53

Right, so if a woman posts on this forum that her partner locked her out of her own home would this be abuse? Imagine that child's feelings of being locked out of her own home. At best this is piss poor parenting.

Aaarrgghhh · 15/09/2019 22:22

I wouldn’t call social services. I haven’t done it myself but I do strap my four year old into her pushchair when she is being particularly unsafe or hurting herself and others. She does have some extra health needs and signs of maybe something more, it’s safer to strap her in than let her run around head butting the wall or something. I imagine given the infrequency and the calm encounter after the 15 minutes this isn’t abuse. If you feel you need to call someone about it then do so but me personally, I wouldn’t.

SD1978 · 15/09/2019 22:28

Its twice in three months. This isn't something that happens all the time, you are otherwise completely unaware of this family. I wouldn't be taking anything further as there doesn't seem to be anything to take further. Child is appropriately dressed, it's not cold and raining, and they have a set time and then the punishment is over. Is it a great punishment, no. Would I do it, no. But I don't see from your description it being social services worthy.

Sleepyhead19 · 15/09/2019 22:40

A lot of children wouldn’t behave any different if they had time out in their room. They’d cry, scream, shout they are sorry etc. If she isn’t in the pouring rain, is dressed for the weather and otherwise ok, leave them be. She’s coming to no harm. You don’t know their situation, what the girl did etc.
She can fall downstairs at home so I feel that’s an invalid reason to be concerned. There might be a younger child napping indoors that the mother has spent hours to settle only to need to discipline the girl and she put her outside to stop waking them.
Also, if she’s put the child outside where you can all see, I’m far less concerned than i would be if I could hear the screaming coming from Indoors where you can’t see!
I don’t think there is any reason for you to involve yourself.

theSnuffster · 15/09/2019 22:44

It's not ideal, being at the top of a flight of steps isn't particularly safe. But I don't think it's enough to need reporting, especially as it's not happening regularly (as far as you know.) Also it sounds like it worked-she cooled down, listened to her mum, and went on with her day.

I also don't think that the fact that the child is distressed means you should be concerned. Most children get distressed at being disciplined at some stage. Many children can sound incredibly distressed over the smallest of things!

Canuckduck · 16/09/2019 02:27

I’d call Social Services and let them make the call and I say that as a former child protection worker. It’s poor parenting and no one knows if it is part of a pattern of concerns that have been reported. I’ve become very frustrated with my children many times but locking them out for a prolonged period is awful.

The police won’t do anything

welliesarefuntowear · 16/09/2019 06:35

I also don't think that the fact that the child is distressed means you should be concerned.

She was locked out of her own house. With no idea when she would be allowed back in. At four years old. This would only escalate any child's distress. Whether or not social services will get involved is moot to the point of fact that any rational human being would find this concerning.

For those of you dismissing this concern because you feel you've used similar parenting strategies that does not mean that this is acceptable. I've done the naughty step and all that bollocks. But I was in the vicinity, supervising however poorly. I've strapped my young son into a pushchair against his will Parenting young children is isolating and difficult. I don't think I always did the best job. But I never locked my kid out of their own house. That is abuse. There is a difference. So for everyone minimising this child's experience, comparing what you would have done to rationalise what the OP saw is not helping this child or the family at all.

Aaarrgghhh · 16/09/2019 08:16

Loving that so many posters are okay with containing children inside the house some way but god forbid you send your child out into your own garden..