Social services, police or keep my nose out of it

[hoxtonbabe]

Hi, this is more a what should I do?

Back in July, I was getting ready with son for school, about 8.15am we heard lots of howling, crying, etc from somewhere at the back of our flat/garden. We then realised it was from one of the gardens opposite and that the parents of a girl aged around 4 had locked her out on the doorway/steps leading down to their garden. I’ve never really seen this family so thought it may have been an AirBnB???

The lady from the house who’s garden backs on to mine/opposite and is about 3 doors away from this family also heard the girl crying etc, and was asking if she was ok, where her mummy was etc but she just kept crying. I could see there were people in the flat, so realised it was a form of punishment after about 5 minutes of this i was about to call the police but then the mother came out, and although I couldn’t clearly hear what they were saying I could see the girl nodding yes, as the mother was calmly talking to her and then they went inside so I left it at that. I must add that the whole thing went on for about 15 mins in total, but initially I wasn’t focused on it as I was getting ready and thought it was just a child crying in general, but when it didn’t stop and was sounding more distressing that’s when I actually looked to see where it was coming from.

Roll on today, my son comes running into my bedroom saying that girl has been locked out again and she’s crying. Now I’m thinking this not a one off air bnb and this doesn’t seem right. Same as before, mum is in the house, girl is crying please let me in, mum then eventually let’s her back in.

Where I’m wavering is who do I call? My gut instinct is SS, or do I leave this family to discipline their child in the way they want ( even though she cries so loud most of us within a 10house radius can hear her ) whilst I’ve witnessed this twice in the space of 2 months, that’s not to say it hasn’t happened when I’ve been out.

They haven’t physically harmed her to my knowledge, and I supposed it’s an extreme version of a time out. Other than the foxes that are usually sunbathing on people’s deck chairs there is no chance of her getting taken, however if she was to get so distraught and Shuffled around she could fall down the metal stairs ( there is at least 10 steps).

It obviously concerns you enough to ask for advice here so in that case I would report it to Social Services and let them decide. The family may already be known to them.
They will probably do some checks with School/ Health Visitors and thendecide if they need to act or not.

^Being outside is a very good way to calm down and I am not sure why people are so animated about it.
Most adults I know step out for a 'breather' when they cross/stressed/need a break. What is the difference?^

The difference is that nobody locks the door behind you and you have no idea when they will let you back in. And 15 minutes is a long time for a 4 year old - much longer than for an adult. You wouldn’t be quite so calm if the door blew shut behind you and you hadn’t got your key.

@hoxtonbabe phone Ss and let them sort it out. There may be other red flags going up in the child's life that they are aware of.

I remember when I had my first baby 5 years ago the midwives and health visitor really pushed at the time to put baby or child when they grew into another room to give yourself 5 minutes to calm down if they wouldn't stop screaming or crying. I'm guessing they don't advice this anymore, thinking to it now I think at the time a child was shaken to death and they came up with this idea to try and help parents not rise or react to the intense screaming

Someone reported my friend to ss for a similar thing.

My friend was very surprised to have a visit from ss. Ss investigated and found everything to be ok.

My friend thought it was nice a neighbour cared enough about the welfare of her child to phone ss.

It's one thing to supervise the child's tantrum in another room. It's quite another to lock them outside.

There is a total assumption that the child was having a tantrum before she was locked out but there is absolutely no evidence of this. She could just be being punished for some perceived naughtiness and was calm before she was locked out. If she was outside to calm down it certainly wasn’t working. She was crying and screaming to try to get her mum to unlock the door. She calmed down when she was allowed back in as would be expected.

Omg. Keep your nose out.

Unless you see her being beaten, hysterically screamed at while the parents shake her keep your nose out.

You even said yourself the parent spoke calmly etc. It's the same as putting her out in the hallway or to her bedroom- she would act the same way.

Worry about your own parenting and kids fgs.

What do you think SS or the police would do!?

Unless you see her being beaten, hysterically screamed at while the parents shake her keep your nose out.

You have no idea what abuse entails do you and hoe many forms it can take?

@StockTakeFucks I'm a woman that spent over a year living in a woman's refuge because of many types of abuse.... so yes, yes I do!!!

You don't have to like my opinion... That's how forums work.
Your opinion isn't a fact the same as mine isn't.
👍🏻

Roozy if you've experienced abuse then you know it isn’t always physical violence.

You didn’t just give your opinion, Roozy, you were pretty rude to OP in the process.

And it’s not up to OP to worry about what they will do if she contacts SS. She can express her concern and they can act according to their professional judgment.

@JoxerGoesToStuttgart ... yes, im fully aware!!

Please someone ring SS or the police (fgs) and say , a child is being put in her garden, not in the rain, not being screamed at but spoken to once the door is open so clearly is being put in a time out situation and see what happens. Please. Because 0 would happen.. this child does not sound at risk she sounds like she's being put in time out and that is the back garden.

It's the same difference as he being put into her bedroom and the door being shut!?

Personally I wouldn't put my kids outside but I don't know this mum, her life, her reasoning for that being the place the time out happens, everyone is SO QUICK to judge other mums to the point they're asking shall they ring the police or SS after watching out a window of something happening twice in 2 months and nothing else!?
A child in bloody time out fgs.

I put my kids on a naughty chair.... is this emotional abuse!?

@CecilyP
Erm.... the question was a long the lines of RING SS POLICE OR KEEP MY NOSE OUT.
I answered... Keep your nose out. Her words, not mine.

Me pointing out she should worry about her own kids and parenting instead of a complete strangers I stand by.
You call it rude, it's my opinion.

As I said and I'll say again, no one has to agree, it's a AIBU I think she is. You think she isn't. It is what it is. Every parent and person is different

"And it’s not up to OP to worry about what they will do if she contacts SS. She can express her concern and they can act according to their professional judgment"

100% agree.
I know one thing, if I saw something so bad happening regarding a child that I thought the POLICE may need to be called or SS I wouldn't be asking strangers on the internet what I should do..

Because 0 would happen.

Not quite. Police would pass it over to SS. SS would check if the family is known to them, if any other reports have been made. If they are known, depending on why, SS will probably come out for a chat. Of course it’s entirely possible this is the first time they’ve been alerted about this family and decide it isn’t a concern so case closed, no action. But it’s also possible this is the latest in a long line of reports about this family after they agreed not to do it anymore and now they have so SS need to escalate. You don’t know.

"You don’t know" nor do you??

When ds was having meltdowns that sounded like a riot I often put him out in the back yard to calm down, there was less chance of him doing damage to either himself or the house. 10 minutes outside in the fresh air soon calmed him down.

@Nat6999 apparently this isnt normal and is abuse. God forbid you live near anyone that would see and call SS or the police. 🙄

(Btw I do not disagree with how you parent- fresh air for a screaming child never done any harm lol)

"Not quite. Police would pass it over to SS"

Not always. My neighbour had around 8 kids. They Wernt looked after well, shoeless, dirty, would ask for food. Police were rang again and again - when SS finally came out it was because he 4yo walked out into the main road was hit by a car and killed. SS then placed the other kids in better care.
No one done anything until that tragedy happened.
Every situation is different, every family and the police and SS don't always follow what is suppose to be done or when it should be done. No one know what would happen if they were called. In my eyes calling to report a child is in time out 0 would happen. My opinion. Not a fact.

I would be most worried about her falling down the metal stairs. If it is a ‘naughty step’ type scenario she should find somewhere safer to implement it. I also think 15 minutes is too long to teach her a lesson. Time outs are meant to be shorter. Does sound a bit cruel to me.

I really can't see how this is 'neglect' or 'abuse'.
The little girl is not in any danger, she was not left outside for hours, it was not cold or inclement. I really don't see how this is dangerous. It would be more dangerous if the mother kept the child inside and completely lost it.

Our NCT group all did a parenting class, and they actively encouraged parents to remove themselves or the child to a safe place if they were feeling overwhelmed. This was the official advice. Maybe it was safer putting the child there, rather than in a house full of appliances etc.

If there is more to it op, then fair enough, but if she lives in a very small flat this may be her only option. If the child is being neglected in other ways or it is happening too often then I would call yes.

The meaning of abuse: treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.

I wouldn't describe it as abuse, and I am not sure anyone else would, but I understand how upsetting it must be for you to see a child distressed and not be able to comfort them. I am sure I would be very upset to see this too.

nor do you??

Exactly- which is why you contact SS and let them decide whether they need to do anything.

Police were rang again and again - when SS finally came out it was because he 4yo walked out into the main road was hit by a car and killed. SS then placed the other kids in better care.
No one done anything until that tragedy happened.

Again, you have no idea what went on. You may think they police did nothing, because they had no need to inform you, but behind the scenes there will have been contact with SS and SS will have probably been involved with the family without you realising. You didn’t live with them, right? So you have no idea who was involved with them.

@sailingclosetothewind
Summed it up. 100% agree.

@JoxerGoesToStuttgart

Without us realising? We spoke with this family and were very close neighbours.. we all tried to help them, I remember my mum begging on a phone call to the police to help and... nothing!! The mum was very open with the fact SS were not involved in their life at all!?
This was a good few years back so things could have changed... my whole point is, you do not know for a FACT that ringing the police or ss about a child being in time out anything would come out of it and the fact you said If you ring the police they always tell ss.... no they don't. Not every situation is for ss.... shocking I know! 🙄

About my old neighbour if ss was involved these kids would have been taken out that house that day!!!

Google it... maybe you'll open your eyes and realise the police and ss don't always do what they're suppose to do when they're suppose to do it!!!! Hence so much abuse deaths etc with children when neighbours etc have rung and reported it and no one has come out or investigated!!! This isn't a new thing.

My opinion.... this, is not for the police or ss.

You think it is.

Difference of opinion. You jumped on my comment... I could not have cared less you dont have the same opinion as me!?