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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Social services, police or keep my nose out of it

257 replies

hoxtonbabe · 14/09/2019 12:27

Hi, this is more a what should I do?

Back in July, I was getting ready with son for school, about 8.15am we heard lots of howling, crying, etc from somewhere at the back of our flat/garden. We then realised it was from one of the gardens opposite and that the parents of a girl aged around 4 had locked her out on the doorway/steps leading down to their garden. I’ve never really seen this family so thought it may have been an AirBnB???

The lady from the house who’s garden backs on to mine/opposite and is about 3 doors away from this family also heard the girl crying etc, and was asking if she was ok, where her mummy was etc but she just kept crying. I could see there were people in the flat, so realised it was a form of punishment after about 5 minutes of this i was about to call the police but then the mother came out, and although I couldn’t clearly hear what they were saying I could see the girl nodding yes, as the mother was calmly talking to her and then they went inside so I left it at that. I must add that the whole thing went on for about 15 mins in total, but initially I wasn’t focused on it as I was getting ready and thought it was just a child crying in general, but when it didn’t stop and was sounding more distressing that’s when I actually looked to see where it was coming from.

Roll on today, my son comes running into my bedroom saying that girl has been locked out again and she’s crying. Now I’m thinking this not a one off air bnb and this doesn’t seem right. Same as before, mum is in the house, girl is crying please let me in, mum then eventually let’s her back in.

Where I’m wavering is who do I call? My gut instinct is SS, or do I leave this family to discipline their child in the way they want ( even though she cries so loud most of us within a 10house radius can hear her ) whilst I’ve witnessed this twice in the space of 2 months, that’s not to say it hasn’t happened when I’ve been out.

They haven’t physically harmed her to my knowledge, and I supposed it’s an extreme version of a time out. Other than the foxes that are usually sunbathing on people’s deck chairs there is no chance of her getting taken, however if she was to get so distraught and Shuffled around she could fall down the metal stairs ( there is at least 10 steps).

OP posts:
hormonesorDHbeingadick · 14/09/2019 13:22

I would call the police.

hormonesorDHbeingadick · 14/09/2019 13:23

The police are the only ones who can do immediate welfare check.

DCOkeford · 14/09/2019 13:23

Oh goodness, just mind your own business!

Its not great parenting IMO, and not something I would do, but falls very far short of anything that requires the involvement of an agency.

It just smacks of you wanting to run and tell teacher - go and find something else to do instead.

Tonnerre · 14/09/2019 13:24

If you have a child that is behaving terribly, far better to put them outside for five minutes than lose your cool and smack them

But, fairly obviously, those aren't the only available alternatives, are they? And in the case of his child it seems to be at least 15 minutes, not 5.

Disfordarkchocolate · 14/09/2019 13:25

I'd report. It sounds like they need some support to me.

MyDcAreMarvel · 14/09/2019 13:25

Calling the police is hysterical, the child is four not two steps should not be an issue.
It’s time out , I would not lock my child outside but it’s not abuse.

newmumatschool · 14/09/2019 13:25

I have a Kurdish family who live on my street, and they regularly sit their child at the end of the drive with their back to the house. If the child moves, the mother hits them with a broom like what witches have with twigs on! This happens in all weathers. I'm not sure if it's cultural or not, but it's obviously their form of punishment and I've never thought to call SS.

Tonnerre · 14/09/2019 13:26

I'm not sure that everyone replying to this has taken in that this child is being left at the top of a flight of metal steps for around 15 minutes at a time. That is what takes this into a different league from simply putting her out into an enclosed garden for a few minutes: she is actively being left in danger with no-one directly supervising her. Even if they're watching her from indoors, that wouldn't enable them to stop her falling down the stairs.

whirlwinds · 14/09/2019 13:27

I would see this as poor judgement and parenting and probably call SS for them to investigate.

WifOfBif · 14/09/2019 13:27

All you would be doing is referring a concern to social services. They will assess and make a decision on whether action needs to be taken.

I do this daily in my job, they’re the professionals. Google your local MASH team, send the referral form and let them decide if it needs investigating further.

sailingclosetothewind · 14/09/2019 13:28

ton We don't know that the mother hasn't tried all the alternatives and they perhaps haven't worked. I am sure she knows the alternatives like the rest of us.

Unless you feel a child is genuinely at risk of harm and neglect then it is probably better not to call SS. If she is in a safe enclosed area and the child is not being harmed then it wouldn't seem like ss involvement is necessary. If something goes wrong and the child is taken away I am not sure the foster care she would find herself in would be better than staying with a parent that occasionally puts her outside....reality check of foster care in this country and all that.

whirlwinds · 14/09/2019 13:30

@newmumatschool There is a good chance that is child abuse. You should also be calling SS.

MollyButton · 14/09/2019 13:30

I would inform SS or police. I have a friend who wishes someone had informed someone when her parents did this kind of thing to her as a child, including kicking her out of the house on Christmas day when she was 7.

SinkGirl · 14/09/2019 13:30

So imagine a situation where lots of people see different things like this from one family and everyone says nothing... that’s the situation for most children experiencing abuse. I would call SS. They may decide it’s not even worth a phone call. Or they may decide to investigate. Others may report other things.

I would never ever do this and I would expect people to report me if I did but I have a history of child abuse so I’m very aware of this stuff.

And my kids both have ASD and are not the easiest kids - one was hysterical from midnight to 5am last night and I didn’t put him in the bloody garden. I’d also never leave my child hysterical at the top of a flight of stairs, outdoors or indoors.

KurriKurri · 14/09/2019 13:30

I would call NSPCC and ask for advice. This would not sit well with me - I would never punish a child by locking them out of the house (or locking them in a room for that matter). IIt's not the same as sitting on the naughty step (which I'm not that keen on either) because that is inside and has a time limit and the child is in a safe environment.
Now the garden may well be safe (although you highlight there are steps) but the child is not perceiving it as such, She sounds distressed and frightened.
I know children can scream and cry and sound more distressed than they are, but with a child this young, I wouldn't ignore. I think it is a horrible punishment.

If all is fine, then nothing will happen, parents will be able to explain and justify their methods. Maybe if it goes to SS, SS will sign it off as checked and all fine. But maybe they will give some parenting advice if the parents are struggling. Or there may even be other stuff going on that you can't see.

MakeItRain · 14/09/2019 13:30

newmumatschool you do need to call ss if that is happening. That's abuse.

Spingtrolls · 14/09/2019 13:31

I've looked after a screamer a few times. Never again and was only in emergency situations.

Age 5. He was doing that loud piercing scream because I wouldn't let him have a massive bar of chocolate. There was nowhere in the house to escape. Trying to reason with him just made him screech louder. 10 minutes of listening to this I was faced with 2 choices, we all leave or he left. I watched him outside through the window. After a bit more screaching the sobbing started.

I thought it was a one-off.

Uniformuniformuniform · 14/09/2019 13:31

My goodness I actually think yabu. My nephew can scream blue murder 24 hours a day. You just have to say no to him and he will scream until he will be sick. His poor mum has tried everything. School won't help because he is an angel there. Hmm so it is just bad behaviour for a reaction. She tried sending him to his room and he will scream let me out. Help I have been kidnapped... Some kids just do that. She has put him in the garden before too because he was punching and pulling his sister's hair out. Sometimes they need to be seperated and they will scre and say anything to get you to do what they want.

The location of this little girl isn't great but you don't know the circumstances

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 14/09/2019 13:32

The police are the only ones who can do immediate welfare check.

The Police will not do an "immediate welfare check" for this. The most they would do is pass on the information to Children's Services.

Original poster
hoxtonbabe · 14/09/2019 13:33

@DCOkeford

If I wanted to run and tell the teacher as you put it I’d have just gone ahead and done that without coming on here!

OP posts:
BumbleBeee69 · 14/09/2019 13:34

so Rain Hail Sleet or Snow, this small Child is locked outside as a form of 'naughty stepping'. I'd be reporting this to the Police OP, and Social Services, and make sure someone calls on this Family, to check on the childs welfare. If all is well, they will hopefully establish this.

30somethingandtired · 14/09/2019 13:38

Could be an unusual 'naughty step' but it's best to call social services just in case.

You have seen a tiny snapshot of this child's life, other people may not see this but may see something else. By reporting it all you are doing is giving social services the jigsaw pieces to identify whether or not the family need help.

Always better safe than sorry. Social Services get loads of bits of information like this and they will not object to the public raising concerns about children. Itmight be nothing, or it might be the thing that saves a child.

Spingtrolls · 14/09/2019 13:38

@BumbleBeee69 - blimey where do you live to get such weather over the past two months?

Answerthequestion · 14/09/2019 13:38

I have to say it doesn’t ring immediate alarm bells to me. I have put one of mine in the garden in the past when they were being beyond vile, can’t remember the reason, it was years ago. Bit of course she was hysterical, she was furious with me and furious with what had ever happened. She eventually came in the house and calmed down. I’ve put her in the car too when I’ve been at a friends house and she has had a huge tantrum. She stayed there for 10 minutes or so while I watched from outside.

She has never been abused, not shouted at, not hit but made very clear that her behaviour was not tolerated

Original poster
hoxtonbabe · 14/09/2019 13:40

@Uniformuniformuniform

Ermmm so you think im being unreasonable to come here and ask for advice on what I should doHmm

OP posts: