Social services, police or keep my nose out of it

[hoxtonbabe]

Hi, this is more a what should I do?

Back in July, I was getting ready with son for school, about 8.15am we heard lots of howling, crying, etc from somewhere at the back of our flat/garden. We then realised it was from one of the gardens opposite and that the parents of a girl aged around 4 had locked her out on the doorway/steps leading down to their garden. I’ve never really seen this family so thought it may have been an AirBnB???

The lady from the house who’s garden backs on to mine/opposite and is about 3 doors away from this family also heard the girl crying etc, and was asking if she was ok, where her mummy was etc but she just kept crying. I could see there were people in the flat, so realised it was a form of punishment after about 5 minutes of this i was about to call the police but then the mother came out, and although I couldn’t clearly hear what they were saying I could see the girl nodding yes, as the mother was calmly talking to her and then they went inside so I left it at that. I must add that the whole thing went on for about 15 mins in total, but initially I wasn’t focused on it as I was getting ready and thought it was just a child crying in general, but when it didn’t stop and was sounding more distressing that’s when I actually looked to see where it was coming from.

Roll on today, my son comes running into my bedroom saying that girl has been locked out again and she’s crying. Now I’m thinking this not a one off air bnb and this doesn’t seem right. Same as before, mum is in the house, girl is crying please let me in, mum then eventually let’s her back in.

Where I’m wavering is who do I call? My gut instinct is SS, or do I leave this family to discipline their child in the way they want ( even though she cries so loud most of us within a 10house radius can hear her ) whilst I’ve witnessed this twice in the space of 2 months, that’s not to say it hasn’t happened when I’ve been out.

They haven’t physically harmed her to my knowledge, and I supposed it’s an extreme version of a time out. Other than the foxes that are usually sunbathing on people’s deck chairs there is no chance of her getting taken, however if she was to get so distraught and Shuffled around she could fall down the metal stairs ( there is at least 10 steps).

It's time out...social services really wouldn't be interested!

I would keep my nose out of their family business. I have enough of my own to worry about.

I wouldn't do that to a dog as punishment nevermind a young child.

It’s scary trying to raise a kid these days with so many people willing to report you for a time out. A type of time out that has been said to be seen on a program on how to parent a child. Someone please tell me why social services would give a shit about this? If they would then I can see why serious cases aren’t looked into.

@Aaarrgghhh
Agreed

Call someone for advice. I remember the sad story of parents who put their son out for a very long time in very cold weather and he died from hypothermia. Bless him.

Roll your eyes all you like Roozy. I wouldn't.

I really can’t get my head around those who say ‘call the police’.

Burglaries are not being investigated; sexual assault charges and convictions are at a 5 year low; reports of fraud are not being investigated; knife crime is out of control; and yet some posters think that a good use of (non existent) police resources is to call the police because a 4YO girl is crying in her garden, while her mother is inside.

I’m not saying this is good parenting, but there is no way this is a matter for the police. Or even for SS, who have to deal with issues that are so much more serious, that this really does not register as significant enough to warrant a minute’s thought.

I will always remember a documentary about adoption, where one of the psychologists being interviewed said ‘these children have seen real abuse. We’re talking about children eating the contents of their nappies, drinking out of the toilet bowl, because they are not being looked after’.

Do you for a minute think that it is okay to divert SS’s scarce resources from those dreadfully serious cases, to investigate a girl that’s been put on the naughty step for fifteen minutes? Come on.

@HollysTeflonSeptum i didn't "roll my eyes".

You say you wouldn't put a dog outside the back door and close it behind you. (As this is what this mum done and you've stated you wouldn't even do that to a dog)
I find that ridiculous. . And very dramatic.

Difference of opinion.

@BorisBadunov

🙌🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

BorisBadunov
Do you for a minute think that it is okay to divert SS’s scarce resources from those dreadfully serious cases, to investigate a girl that’s been put on the naughty step for fifteen minutes? Come on.

It's only possibly a little punishment so don't report it because only the really bad cases should be reported? How do you know the shutting out of the house isn't part of a package of bad abuse? How do you know it isn't something that won't escalate dramatically? How do you know it's not the sign of a parent that can't cope?

I understand that there are the really bad cases and do wish everything possible could be done for all abused children, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try for the children suffering even just mild abuse. Social Services will be able to prioritise the calls. As previous posters have said, this could be one on top of a number of things that have been raised with them and finally be the thing that gets help for the child.

Nothing should be thought of as "well it's much worse for someone else, so I won't report/care about this".

If I saw a neighbour repeatedly shutting out a clearly distressed child I would report it, even if just to the local health visiting team. They will know whether or not to investigate.

If I saw a neighbour repeatedly shutting out a clearly distressed child I would report it
It was twice in 2 months that OP witnessed it.

Also, It's only possibly a little punishment so don't report it because only the really bad cases should be reported? How do you know the shutting out of the house isn't part of a package of bad abuse? How do you know it isn't something that won't escalate dramatically? How do you know it's not the sign of a parent that can't cope?

In that case you must make alot of reports!!!! Any parent you see pull their child by the hand a little harder than they should, raise their voice a little louder than you think is needed any time you saw a child in distress (for even just wanting a lolly but been told No because... well kids have absolute MELT DOWNS about anything very minor most times.)

Do you for a minute think that it is okay to divert SS’s scarce resources from those dreadfully serious cases, to investigate a girl that’s been put on the naughty step for fifteen minutes? Come on.

Social services have to deal with all sorts of crap, including reports from disgruntled grandparents and former partners. Also from neighbours who have simply fallen out with each other. I am sure they won't mind a call from a genuinely concerned neighbour and they will be the ones to decide how to to progress the call.

@Tordevan, why stop there? I don’t know how anybody in the world parents their kids in the privacy of their own homes. I can’t rule out that they might use methods I don’t agree with. I should therefore report everyone I know, lest they might be neglectful when I’m not around?

What the OP witnessed is not, taken on its own, a significant event. If we have to report anything, no matter how insignificant, where does it stop? And who is going to pick up the tab on this? We don’t have resources, as a society, to handle non significant reports.

@CecilyP, two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because the SS resources are being diverted in bad faith, doesn’t mean we need to pile on and divert yet more resources to a non event.

Haven't read the whole thread, sorry.

But I put my own children on the safeguarding register when their dad did this to them and blocked me getting them back in. And then I divorced him.

I was wishing and wishing someone else would call it in so it wasn't just 'me against him'.

Without knowing the context it is hard to say, but I think even the situations which I did read replies on, a call or helping hand wouldn't have hurt anyway.

I'm a bit surprised by PPs saying the authorities won't be interested.
Our Dd got herself caught outside on the balcony last year by accident. She would have been there for about 5/10 minutes at most.
A neighbour called the police and they came around to do a welfare check very quickly.
Dd had been retrieved from the balcony and was enjoying a bath by the time the police arrived but they still had a good few questions for us and some follow up questions for the neighbour who had called them.
They checked the fridge, the food cupboards and the children's rooms.
The house was a bit of a pig style at the time so they also raised that with us. I heard them stand at the bottom of the stairs discussing amongst themselves whether it should be a "referral" to social services or only a "report".
They ended up making a report. In the end Social Services obviously didn't feel like it met the threshold to investigate further, despite my making a number of phone calls to chase them up (I was desperate to clear things up as you might imagine).
When they still hadn't been round a year later, I eventually rang to check if we were still a case and found that it'd been passed over to the health visitor (who didn't come out either).
That's 10 minutes on the balcony by mistake and a few days of being slack about housework. If they'd have found something to be genuinely concerned about I've no doubt we'd still be dealing with social services involvement now.

@unlimited - but that’s exactly my point - they found nothing. These officers, who could and should be investigating crime, wasted their time looking into your cupboards. They then wasted SS time, who then wasted the health visitors’ time. All this for nothing.

Again, this does not come free. It comes at the cost of a crime wave, that police don’t have the resources to tackle.

When my daughter was 4 or 5 I took my eyes off her, she locked herself out and cried and banged on the door for me to let her in. I didn't hear, she was too small to reach the bell.

Our, thankfully, lovely neighbour heard her and called round to "borrow something" to let me know.

I am so glad she did. It wasn't more than a few minutes, I probably thought she was playing her in room or was justing getting on with mundane stuff in the house. I felt/feel awful and still remember 25 years later.

Could you pop over and just ask if she's done something similar?

But they didn't find "nothing" did they BorisBadunov. They found that we had been careless about supervising our child and securing the balcony. They found that we were not keeping on top of the housework.
They also found that, in spite of this, the children were safe in that moment and had access to food and bedding.
If there was more too it- they would have found that too.
Some of what they found might have been an indication of bigger problems.
For example, they were very interested in the fact that this had happened on DH's watch while I was having some down time in my bedroom. Its always been our habit for DH to come home from work, take over things and give me a chance to have a break. I never thought twice about it (except to feel lucky to have a supportive DP). I've since learned that the "One-parent-on duty: One-parent-off duty" thing can be characteristic of drug addicts. They might take it in turn to have a fix while the other is in charge of the children.
So my point is: Yes the authorities will take it seriously. And yes, they should do.

As someone who works in public protection, I would rather get a ‘false call with good intent ‘ than people not act on their instinct or worries.
The public are ‘eyes and ears’ for those who can’t speak for themselves ‘
As I said earlier up the thread, I’d share your concern and let Professionals decide whether to act or not.

Do you for a minute think that it is okay to divert SS’s scarce resources from those dreadfully serious cases, to investigate a girl that’s been put on the naughty step for fifteen minutes? Come on.

But she hasn't been put on the naughty step. She's been left at far too young an age at the top of a potentially dangerous staircase.

It's not your job to be the jury and decide if they are fit parents are not. You dont have to judge that. The advice is to report a concern. It might be nothing it might be something that's not for you or for social services to decided. But you have a concern report it (social sevices). Your part is done. They can decide if it's ok or not and your conscious is clear either way.

I dont like the sound of that. Cant imagine doing that to my children and believe me that can push my buttons when they want to. She is only little and will be scared. Teaching her adults can be mean and nothing else if u ask me. But everyone parents differently I suppose.

Sorry. Should read. That's not for you to decide , that's for social services to decide.

Roosy no not even with a dog if there was a steep metal staircase there which people keep glossing over, I wouldn't. It was also a locked not simply closed door- relevant in the case of a possibly hysterical child. Not sure why you're so keen to play down the dangers.

Strangely enough I managed to bring up two well rounded teenagers without locking them out (or in for that matter). I'd say that's the opposite of dramatic.