Social services, police or keep my nose out of it

[hoxtonbabe]

Hi, this is more a what should I do?

Back in July, I was getting ready with son for school, about 8.15am we heard lots of howling, crying, etc from somewhere at the back of our flat/garden. We then realised it was from one of the gardens opposite and that the parents of a girl aged around 4 had locked her out on the doorway/steps leading down to their garden. I’ve never really seen this family so thought it may have been an AirBnB???

The lady from the house who’s garden backs on to mine/opposite and is about 3 doors away from this family also heard the girl crying etc, and was asking if she was ok, where her mummy was etc but she just kept crying. I could see there were people in the flat, so realised it was a form of punishment after about 5 minutes of this i was about to call the police but then the mother came out, and although I couldn’t clearly hear what they were saying I could see the girl nodding yes, as the mother was calmly talking to her and then they went inside so I left it at that. I must add that the whole thing went on for about 15 mins in total, but initially I wasn’t focused on it as I was getting ready and thought it was just a child crying in general, but when it didn’t stop and was sounding more distressing that’s when I actually looked to see where it was coming from.

Roll on today, my son comes running into my bedroom saying that girl has been locked out again and she’s crying. Now I’m thinking this not a one off air bnb and this doesn’t seem right. Same as before, mum is in the house, girl is crying please let me in, mum then eventually let’s her back in.

Where I’m wavering is who do I call? My gut instinct is SS, or do I leave this family to discipline their child in the way they want ( even though she cries so loud most of us within a 10house radius can hear her ) whilst I’ve witnessed this twice in the space of 2 months, that’s not to say it hasn’t happened when I’ve been out.

They haven’t physically harmed her to my knowledge, and I supposed it’s an extreme version of a time out. Other than the foxes that are usually sunbathing on people’s deck chairs there is no chance of her getting taken, however if she was to get so distraught and Shuffled around she could fall down the metal stairs ( there is at least 10 steps).

@adaline being outside (in clement weather) is a good thing. And gardens are usually further than bedrooms from roads with cars on them (behind behind the house and all).

OP, are you sure they’re locking her outside as opposed to closing the door and telling her not to come in? Are they monitoring her at all or completely ignoring her? If she’s being locked out and ignored that’s more concerning.

Good point about friends.
The girl and parents could be visiting. Parents don't want her damaging friends' stuff wherever she is put on timeout. There might not be space or an area inside the place for her.
Sometimes we have to quickly think outside the box to adapt to our surroundings.

I think there’s any amount of possible explanations, also that the child’s reaction isn’t always indicative of the severity of the punishment but their levels of tantrum/meltdown. My eldest DS is autistic with other learning disabilities and would cry like you’ve said because he doesn’t want to brush his teeth, or wants something totally inappropriate or has been told he can’t do something inappropriate. We find the best course of action is to leave the room and ignore him, as his behaviour is for attention. But I can see why you might be tempted to stick them outside, especially if you have other children. Not that I think that’s ok.

As PP have said, report it and let the professionals decide if it’s a concern. The consequences of not reporting it when there was a worry are much graver than not reporting it when there is!

I think SS would be concerned if they knew the parent Was locking the child in the room.

For 15 minutes at a time? No. That's very naive. And they won't be concerned about this either.

5 mins
Very irregular
She spoke calmly.
The girl nodded and came back in quietly

Sounds to me like it worked

I have done the same. It’s actually really good. Change of scene, blast of fresh air, they have choice to run around garden in circles, Juno up and down, pull up some grass. Or just stand and wail.

My son can get in a tizzy and can’t see wood for trees. I say that he will be our outside if he continues. If he continues, I order him out and says he is out there until he calms down. I lock the door (french doors directly in front of kitchen where I am).

I then completely ignore him.
After ten mins of fussing angrily bouncing a ball, he begins to settle.
Last time I did it - he calmed down, I opened door, he apologised and then wanted to stay outside!

Handful of times. He’s 8.
Works well

I've never done that to my child, though I have given him a short (one minute for every year) time out several times in his room. It's only ever when he's been really, really naughty but majority of times he screams and bangs on the door for a bit.

I'm curious to know what the posters who say if the child is yelling it's not the right punishment for them would do instead? Not being goady at all, just looking for ideas because when it reaches that point for me nothing else works with my "spirited" boy. And I've tried plenty of other ways.

There was an episode of supernanny shared on fb the other day (I really hate the program from the clips I’ve seen, but anyway...) where supernanny dragged the kid by the arm and locked him outside, then wouldn’t let him back in until he calmed down, he was yanking on the door going mad and she was shouting no you aren’t coming in until you can behave and calm down. The boy was 5 or 6. She was teaching the parents this as a technique!

Although I wouldn’t lock my children outside it’s just an extreme form of the naughty step which we do use. You are seeing a snapshot and just the punishment, you haven’t witnessed what has led them to have to tell her off. Maybe they are really cruel or maybe she’s really pushing boundaries and that’s the only thing that will diffuse the situation. Again not saying it’s right but I wouldn’t automatically think abuse or neglect unless you were witnessing something else.

If you are worried ring ss. I highly doubt they’ll do anything. A close friend of mine is a clinical psychologist and will ring with concerns, 99% of the time no further action is taken, this is when there is something serious going on. She gets so frustrated, but they are another service over stretched.

@BogglesGoggles

They are locking the door, I seen her on both occasions turn the key, plus the girl will also pull at the handle to attempt to go in but it’s locked.

Whilst I can’t see full view into their flat I can see the mum walking around, pottering about she’s not standing or sitting there watching her. She’s leaving her out there and getting on with breakfast, ironing or whatever.

Personally I would report this to someone. Safeguarding training always highlights the need to pass on anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, as it can all be part of a wider picture.

Personally I would pass this on to SS and they can decide whether it's a concern or not. It may form part of a picture of other concerns.

@hoxtonbabe No I think you are unreasonable to think straight away that the child is in eager and to call the police or social services.

This is aibu. So what is your aibu? I said yabu to jump to calling police and social services

If she is in a safe enclosed area and the child is not being harmed then it wouldn't seem like ss involvement is necessary.

But she isn't, is she? A landing at the top of a flight of metal steps is the reverse of "a safe enclosed area".

I have done the same. It’s actually really good.

You've left your child at the top of a flight of metal stairs for 15 minutes, @lovemenorca? Really?

Omg I have done this with a screaming child.
It is not abuse or neglect. Parents are trying to re establish calm and clearly it works because child goes back in after a quiet word.
And the incidents have been months apart

Calling social services is a complete over reaction.
Stay out of it completely

@BumbleBeee69 - blimey where do you live to get such weather over the past two months?

Western Isles Scotland

If the child moves, the mother hits them with a broom like what witches have with twigs on! This happens in all weathers. I'm not sure if it's cultural or not, but it's obviously their form of punishment and I've never thought to call SS.

@newmumatschool. Fuck's sake, why not???

God I did this once when my kid was 6. We were all outside having a grand old time when she started having a meltdown over an ice cream. We couldn’t calm her so went inside and left her to have her meltdown in the (secure and enclosed) garden.

Someone called the police. Most mortifying experience of my life.

I don't think they're doing anything wrong. You're extrapolating that the steps are a danger but lots of DCs grow up with steps and are accustomed to them.
Considering you don't even know if they live there, I'm amazed you can determine the extent of the mother's supervision when she's inside the house.
Interestingly, there was a report this morning on research into using naughty steps and it said it was a strategy that didn't seem to cause any damage to DCs.

Haven’t read all the replies, but I’m berg precious with my children but this wouldn’t bother me? Kids tantrum when they are being punished and as you can read from an article today, time outs aren’t a harmful type of punishment.

My just turned 4 year old DD can also be very dramatic when she’s having a tantrum (quite rare though) and will often repeat awful stuff like “mum you won’t give me a cuddle” when I’ve told her I will - so it’s not that terrible to me that the girl is saying please let me in.

The she is in a secure area and is not locked out the front, I would say phoning SS is a huge over reaction myself, let alone the police.

I think we all agree it's not ideal parenting, yet some of us have done it. For my 3 year old, time out was the only fucking thing that worked. 3 minutes, and she'd have calmed da fuck down. I was beaten as a child, so figured this was the lesser of two evils. They say you should praise good behaviour and ignore the bad blah blah me arse. Ain't nobody got time for that!
What else could the parent have done? Sat her on the naughty step inside? Still the same principle.
Removed a treat? Too long and severe.
I liked time out 1 minute per year of age.

very precious about my children*

@Butchyrestingface because they don't appear to be hurting the child, or marking them in any way which is the red flag when it comes to the smacking argument. It just seems to be their way of making the child sit back down.

If she's 5, she should only have been left there for 5 minutes though. I think that she's in full view of neighbours adds a dimension of humiliation of the little girl to the punishment which isn't right either.

To the poster further up who has a family who beats their child with a broom - PLEASE report. I was once that child.

@1FineDane

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@newmumatschool
Please call social services. Several of us have said this sounds abusive.

I also think you’re exaggerating the steps, I’m sure they aren’t as dangerous as your making out, to call the police or ss is hysterical