AIBU to be so paralysed with indecision about a 3rd child? Need to decide today / tomorrow

[shallweshantwe2019]

IVF / pregnancy loss / should we stick at two or try for three? / I'm nearly 42 / need to decide today / tomorrow!

'You don't regret the children you have!' - that's a cliché that always comes up when I google this question. Is it true?

I am literally going crazy with indecision on whether to have a third. Been considering it since start of this year and DH has told me he wouldn't have suggested it, it's not his preference, he feels complete with two but will support my decision as doesn't want me to regret not trying later. The crucial info is that we have 2 x good quality embryos in storage from an earlier IVF cycle when I was much younger. I need to decide asap (period this month is looming today or tomorrow and that's when I need to start the process) whether to try for a third using them. (We may 'resolve' the remaining embryos issue if we try and we may not. Maybe the first embryo defrosted will be suitable for transfer and if so we would still have one left that we have no intention of using as definitely wouldn't want 4 children. So going ahead with the treatment doesn't guarantee that we'd resolve the issue completely. This would only happen if one or both of the embryos defrosted were judged not suitable for transfer....)

I have 2 x DS (one is 7 and one is 3). Eldest is IVF, then had two MCs (one IVF frozen cycle loss and one natural conception loss) and youngest is a natural conception. The IVF process, the MCs and the second pregnancy were all emotionally hard and stressful, even though I have two beautiful boys as a result. The pregnancies were fine but second very stressful due to previous losses and the births were different - typical long complicated labour with the first and much quicker and easier with the second. I am nearly 42. Eldest arrived when I was 34 and youngest when I was 38.

What's pushing the desire for a third?

• Feeling not quite 'done'. (Does every feel this? How did you get over it?)
• Feeling of obligation to use the remaining blastocyst embryos we have (even if practically we might only actually use one in a cycle and would then have to let the remaining one 'go to research'.) I feel like I'd be wasting them, killing them even, to not even try to use them to get pregnant. I would mourn this as much as anything and know I would always wonder what they look like.
• My youngest starts FT school next year. Feeling like a phase of my life is over and anxious about what comes next.
• I am one of two and due to a v large age gap me and my sibling are not especially close. I would like my sons to be close and think having an extra sibling would give them more family (obv!)
• I am already an 'older' mum. I will already be 56 when my youngest heads off to uni if he goes, and I'll be nearly 60 when he graduates. (My mum had me relatively old and passed away recently in her mid-70s. I miss her so and wish she was here to be gran to my boys. But this doesn't mean I don't wish I had the boys...! And none of us know how long we have and if we'll have or live to meet grandchildren anyway...)

What's holding me back?

• Wondering if the 'not done' feeling comes from the fact I have these embryos there, waiting and the fact that my other two are just growing up i.e. a normal phase that all mums go through. I wouldn't be pushing to try to conceive afresh at my age due to worries about genetic abnormalities.
• The one embryo we used previously from the frozen batch didn't work so it's entirely possible these won't either as they are slightly less good quality.
• The increase in 'to do' and 'stuff' that a third would bring.
• Lack of time with any one child, feeling spread too thin.

-Lack of time for me and husband

• Worry about every stage - the frozen embryo cycle and if it works will I be happy or worried, the 9 mths of pregnancy, possible miscarriage especially if later on, the extra medical intervention that is inevitable being a 40+ pregnant, possible birth complications (NICU or stillbirth...) and impact of all this on me, my other two children and husband...
• DH says a 3rd cannot be easier in any way. I'm sure he's right, at least in the short-medium term.
• Holidays and activities would need to cut back with three children.

So, if we go for it and it works we'll need to change my car for a bigger one (DH has a work car so no option to change that and it won't take 3 child seats in the back), will need to move soon-ish (before or after baby 3 is born (to a bigger house and massively declutter a loft and garage before that). I will need to take 12 mths mat leave again (I only get SMP in my job which pays £13k gross PA - DH earns £50k gross and is secure). Both boys will be in FT school come Sept 2020 so bulk of childcare will be just for #3 when I return to work and I'd have all day with the bay when on mat leave. I work part time currently and would go back part time after any 3rd baby.

Do I throw caution to the wind and at least try? Or is that crazy and irrational?

If we don't go for it, how to I move on mentally and emotionally? Will I need to grieve? Will the wonder 'what if?' ever go away?

I've had a couple of counselling sessions at the IVF clinic but to no avail.
DH says I just need to decide and not feel guilty either way and move on either way. Decision-making especially of this kind is not my strong point.

I can see positives later down the line of having 3 children and the immediate oxytocin rush of a newborn is like a drug but I feel there's a lot of tough stuff to get through between now and then and the later, more independent children stage.

Stick or twist? Be happy with the two I have who are more than I ever thought I would have or try for one more? Which regret is harder to live with?

I know people get pregnant at my age unplanned and it all works out fine but we would be actively taking steps to get pregnant which is different. And this would be our third, not a much-longed for 1st at the same age.

Please help. I can't function for thinking about this all.

If you had similar dilemmas - sticking at 2, not using good left over embryos - how did you make peace with it all?
(DH and I agree we couldn't donate embryos to another couple.)

HELP!!

Oh, and a post script, feeling like I'm missing out due to not having a daughter (and therefore a mum-daughter relationship) is another reason for trying for a third even if of course gender isn't guaranteed!

Why do you need to decide today or tomorrow? Isn't that self imposed deadline putting a lot of pressure on you?

I don't know the answer, because there isn't really a right answer. It sounds like you've got a really good handle on the pros/cons. Can you access counselling at all to explore it with a neutral listener?

I was drawn to this thread because I also have two living children, wanted to have a third, ended up pregnant with twins and then lost them the day they were born. It was horrible and sad (obviously) and now I don't know where I stand either re trying again / a third. But not wanting to derail your thread, however am interested in responses and what people say.

I think talking it through with someone neutral is key, whatever you decide there are no guarantees and it could go wrong... But it might not either. I think the time pressure re needing to decide right this second probably isn't helping.

Sorry just realised you have accessed counselling. I guess maybe that doesn't help with the decision making part, BUT could maybe help at the point where you feel ready to make a decision, in coming to terms with it. Especially the frozen embryo question and if you choose to let one or both go.
Have you got other friends to bounce it off?
The thing is there are just no guarantees. But if you throw caution to the wind and try, and it goes wrong- you have to be able to deal with that. I can't ever regret our decision to try again, though on the face of it you'd think I would given what happened. I am having to accept what happened and incorporate it into my life, and move forward knowing I now have a big tragedy in my life and that other people in my family have suffered as a result too. But if I hadn't got pregnant I might have to live with other uncomfortable feelings too. So I just don't know.

I am wracked with indecision also. Also have one IVF and second was natural conception. However, our frozen embryos failed to thaw so we no longer have them. I grieved very deeply for them. If I had embryos I would go for it. I couldn't destroy them and that would make my decision for me.

Thanks for replying Rosti and I'm so very sorry for your loss and in such difficult circumstances. I totally understand how you can't regret having tried, even if it means you have a different and difficulty reality to live with now. (hugs)

The deadline is simply because I can't let this run and run any longer. I need closure one way or the other. Every month since April I've been umm-ing and ahh-ing and no further on. DH says it's hanging over us and he's right. And there's also the issue of payment for continued storage of these embryos. We have paid loads in storage so far (7 x annual storage fees1) and also paid to move them from the clinic they were made at to where we are now when we relocated. I feel a huge attachment to them whatever happens.

I'm in exactly the same position so am watching this with interest.

Years of struggling / MCs / IVF and we finally have our 2 children BUT I have 2 frozen blastocyst embryos and I don't think I can just throw them away. They represent so much time / tears / struggle but I've never wanted three children. Except, now there's a nagging feeling that maybe I do. Maybe we should try. Maybe three is what's supposed to happen.

Pregnancy this time round was horrid - bed rest, early labour, hospital for 2 weeks at the end. Would be pushing my luck to do it again. I'm 40 next month.

So. Nothing helpful to add at all! Sorry!

In your situation I wouldn’t pay to ttc with IVF due to the low odds and higher risks of miscarriage or health problems for you or the baby.

I have two DC, largely due to fertility issues, would’ve ideally liked three, but didn’t want to take the risks.

Also, I think I would find WoH even more difficult with three. No family back up.

OhWifey thanks for replying. We have similar stories. I know there is no perfect answer and no outcome that won't leave me with worry and guilt. Not trying and donating the embryos to research will leave me feeling guilty and wondering what might have been. And going ahead and trying will bring so much worry and different guilt, about not having so much time and resource for my 'already here kids.

Grateful as I am to have had success with IVF (so many don't as we know) and to have frozen embryos too (as I know you wished for) I also can't help feeling that I never wished to be in this position and feel so burdened by it all... :(

What is your instinctive feeling if you were to try?

What is your instinctive feeling if you were to decide not to use the embryos?

Loopy thanks for the reply. It's the unknowns of pregnancy (which were the same or similar with my previous two I know) that I'm struggling to get past this time. We also have zero local family support too so I worry about the practicalities of three too and whether I would cope or crack under the pressure.

The odds will be worse and risks higher now though because of your age now.

Lily - I feel for you. It's an unspoken fallout of fertility treatment I feel. DH and I always said we would like 2 children and then when DS1 arrived finally it was a big shock - not a great sleeper, lots of feeding issues etc. So we didn't even try for the 2 year gap that most around us went for. And then when we felt ready for #2 we hit problems with 2 x MCs. The first was after a frozen cycle and made me lose faith in the remaining embryos. So we tried naturally after that and after another MC eventually got DS2. And I thought I was done as so many of our friends have just two in varying girl/boy combos when they could just as easily have gone for 3 given their age, resources, support network etc. I think what brought it all to a head for me is knowing we needed to decide soon-ish (sometime in 2019) about the fate of these embryos and then two of my cousins in their mid-30s having their first babies this summer (both girls) and seeing my boys with them. So cute! And how different a girl would be. I would have a mum-daughter relationship too and I so miss my mum. I see my DH is not close to his mum in any way like how I was to mine and I worry my boys will be like that in future. But I could try for a 3rd and get another boy! I'm so mixed up. It's a lot because I know the embies are there....

Loopy yes, but not by as much as with a natural conception at 42 as the embies are from a 34 yr old me. But yes, pregnancy over 40 is a bit more risky than when younger!

Anchor - I wish I knew. Part of me thinks that my clear hesitance is reason enough to go with sticking at 2 and dealing with any regrets that come from that as and when, maybe with counselling. That's DH's take on it all too.

I say go for it! Our no 3'2was unplanned but I cannot imagine life without her.

If you don't try, the thought of those frozen embryos and who they might have been could haunt you. If you try and it doesn't work, you gave them your best shot and can move on. If you try and it works - wow!

I'm in a similar boat in that I'm 41 fell pregnant by accident back in June but had a miscarriage. I thought I was done as I have two but feel very much like I'm not. In your shoes, yes I would especially as they're not huge age gaps.

Be happy with what you already have! Goodness gracious, there are so many people who would be grateful to have one child, never mind two and you have two.

Your husband is content with two, you are in your forties, wtf do you want to go through all that again? Self indulgent rubbish. Get real. You have been blessed with the children you have, appreciate it.

I have literally just given the orders for my clinic to destroy my remaining embryos. It’s been ten years and two children and I don’t want to go back to the baby years.

It was still hard making that final call but in reality I knew I’d only want another child if one of my existing kids was ill or something and needed a donor that couldn’t be found - I didn’t feel that was right so moved on.

I do think if I’d had kids when younger I might’ve had more, but at 40 I’m now looking forward to the next bit of my life (now my youngest is at school!).

That final decision was very hard tho. Feels like letting go of something.

I would be happy with the children I have, and at 42 you will be falling in a higher risk category with all that could bring. Having a newborn baby and then a young child when you are approaching fifty is likely to be very tiring for years and years.

Personally I would put my energy and resources into the children that are already here, and avoid the significant pressure of having a third baby in your mid forties.
Having a girl does not automatically offer a strong bond, many of my male friends are very close to their mothers.

Be happy with your blessings.

Obviously it's your decision, but my advice would be to stop. Of all the reasons you give, I think the main one is that it wouldn't be your DH's preference and he'd only be doing it to support you. As you are feeling so ambivalent yourself, I think it's fair to him to let this be the deciding factor.

(Incidentally I have three DC. I love them to bits but my DC3 was by far the hardest! He was a terrible sleeper (the worst of the three by miles) and a very 'determined' toddler.)

I sympathise. It's so hard to let go of stored embryos. I deeply regret not donating mine. Is donation a possibility, ethically, emotionally and practically for you?

I can't decide for you but have to say if you are ambivalent don't do it!
You will be poorer, more exhausted, a mum for years longer. As the older ones reach their teens you change biologically and start to champ at the bit to be free again. Imagine that and having a tween still shuffling its uncertain moody way into adolescence when you really are ready to sell up and tour the world again.

I’ve read everything you’ve written, and this is just the opinion of a stranger. Let it go. Enjoy your boys. Don’t hang on to the ‘what if’...There are always ‘what ifs’ in life. Go forth and enjoy the life you have now. Be present.

I think you should be happy with the family you have and stop. The fact that your husband doesn't really want a third should have already ended this debate.

Go for it!!! We had 2 boys, agonised about the 3rd, rolled the dice and now we have a beautiful baby girl who completes our family. Zero regrets and I truly can't believe we ever doubted if we should go for it.

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. The reassurance about men who are close to their mums is lovely.

NearlyGranny I'm so glad it all worked out for you. My fears are as much around the what comes after a positive test as much as anything and I'm struggling to get past them this time. Maybe with all I've been through thus far I just don't have it in my to try for a 3rd despite what my heart says.

(Rachelover, I know it's AIBU but do you need to be so rude?)