AIBU to be so paralysed with indecision about a 3rd child? Need to decide today / tomorrow

[shallweshantwe2019]

IVF / pregnancy loss / should we stick at two or try for three? / I'm nearly 42 / need to decide today / tomorrow!

'You don't regret the children you have!' - that's a cliché that always comes up when I google this question. Is it true?

I am literally going crazy with indecision on whether to have a third. Been considering it since start of this year and DH has told me he wouldn't have suggested it, it's not his preference, he feels complete with two but will support my decision as doesn't want me to regret not trying later. The crucial info is that we have 2 x good quality embryos in storage from an earlier IVF cycle when I was much younger. I need to decide asap (period this month is looming today or tomorrow and that's when I need to start the process) whether to try for a third using them. (We may 'resolve' the remaining embryos issue if we try and we may not. Maybe the first embryo defrosted will be suitable for transfer and if so we would still have one left that we have no intention of using as definitely wouldn't want 4 children. So going ahead with the treatment doesn't guarantee that we'd resolve the issue completely. This would only happen if one or both of the embryos defrosted were judged not suitable for transfer....)

I have 2 x DS (one is 7 and one is 3). Eldest is IVF, then had two MCs (one IVF frozen cycle loss and one natural conception loss) and youngest is a natural conception. The IVF process, the MCs and the second pregnancy were all emotionally hard and stressful, even though I have two beautiful boys as a result. The pregnancies were fine but second very stressful due to previous losses and the births were different - typical long complicated labour with the first and much quicker and easier with the second. I am nearly 42. Eldest arrived when I was 34 and youngest when I was 38.

What's pushing the desire for a third?

• Feeling not quite 'done'. (Does every feel this? How did you get over it?)
• Feeling of obligation to use the remaining blastocyst embryos we have (even if practically we might only actually use one in a cycle and would then have to let the remaining one 'go to research'.) I feel like I'd be wasting them, killing them even, to not even try to use them to get pregnant. I would mourn this as much as anything and know I would always wonder what they look like.
• My youngest starts FT school next year. Feeling like a phase of my life is over and anxious about what comes next.
• I am one of two and due to a v large age gap me and my sibling are not especially close. I would like my sons to be close and think having an extra sibling would give them more family (obv!)
• I am already an 'older' mum. I will already be 56 when my youngest heads off to uni if he goes, and I'll be nearly 60 when he graduates. (My mum had me relatively old and passed away recently in her mid-70s. I miss her so and wish she was here to be gran to my boys. But this doesn't mean I don't wish I had the boys...! And none of us know how long we have and if we'll have or live to meet grandchildren anyway...)

What's holding me back?

• Wondering if the 'not done' feeling comes from the fact I have these embryos there, waiting and the fact that my other two are just growing up i.e. a normal phase that all mums go through. I wouldn't be pushing to try to conceive afresh at my age due to worries about genetic abnormalities.
• The one embryo we used previously from the frozen batch didn't work so it's entirely possible these won't either as they are slightly less good quality.
• The increase in 'to do' and 'stuff' that a third would bring.
• Lack of time with any one child, feeling spread too thin.

-Lack of time for me and husband

• Worry about every stage - the frozen embryo cycle and if it works will I be happy or worried, the 9 mths of pregnancy, possible miscarriage especially if later on, the extra medical intervention that is inevitable being a 40+ pregnant, possible birth complications (NICU or stillbirth...) and impact of all this on me, my other two children and husband...
• DH says a 3rd cannot be easier in any way. I'm sure he's right, at least in the short-medium term.
• Holidays and activities would need to cut back with three children.

So, if we go for it and it works we'll need to change my car for a bigger one (DH has a work car so no option to change that and it won't take 3 child seats in the back), will need to move soon-ish (before or after baby 3 is born (to a bigger house and massively declutter a loft and garage before that). I will need to take 12 mths mat leave again (I only get SMP in my job which pays £13k gross PA - DH earns £50k gross and is secure). Both boys will be in FT school come Sept 2020 so bulk of childcare will be just for #3 when I return to work and I'd have all day with the bay when on mat leave. I work part time currently and would go back part time after any 3rd baby.

Do I throw caution to the wind and at least try? Or is that crazy and irrational?

If we don't go for it, how to I move on mentally and emotionally? Will I need to grieve? Will the wonder 'what if?' ever go away?

I've had a couple of counselling sessions at the IVF clinic but to no avail.
DH says I just need to decide and not feel guilty either way and move on either way. Decision-making especially of this kind is not my strong point.

I can see positives later down the line of having 3 children and the immediate oxytocin rush of a newborn is like a drug but I feel there's a lot of tough stuff to get through between now and then and the later, more independent children stage.

Stick or twist? Be happy with the two I have who are more than I ever thought I would have or try for one more? Which regret is harder to live with?

I know people get pregnant at my age unplanned and it all works out fine but we would be actively taking steps to get pregnant which is different. And this would be our third, not a much-longed for 1st at the same age.

Please help. I can't function for thinking about this all.

If you had similar dilemmas - sticking at 2, not using good left over embryos - how did you make peace with it all?
(DH and I agree we couldn't donate embryos to another couple.)

HELP!!

I don’t you’d be writing this thread if you didn’t have embryos on ice as a result of ivf.

That tells me it’s bit about the pros and cons of a third baby. It’s all about the guilt factor of destroying embryos.

I only say this because it might help to narrow down your thinking.

We are in a similar situation although not as urgent. Two lovely girls (4 and 1), 3 embryos still frozen. I'm 34, no idea how we'll ever decide if we should go for number 3. And what if we still had embryos left after a 3rd?!
Watching with interest

I’ll admit I don’t know much about ivf but wouldn’t it be better to fertilise one egg at a time so that people aren’t left in this predicament?

escapade1234 They can't fertilize one egg at a time.
They give drugs to stimulate ovaries, collect as many eggs as possible in theatre, and fertilize.

Approximately 2/3 will fertilize
And of them 2/3 will be good enough
I got more eggs than most, 21of them 14 fertilized, the 2 best were put back, and 5 were good enough to freeze. I believe that its not that common to get 5 to freeze.

I can’t think of anything worse than a third child. It’s enough work keeping up with everything/spending time with 2. I also like they don’t have to share a room, I like my smaller car.

I would be very worried about tempting the fates with a third in your shoes.

If you love babies, you'll probably never really get over them - it doesn't mean you should continually have more. I still feel like a crazy person when I walk by a baby, like I might snatch it.

Your husband doesn't want another one. That would be enough to make up my mind not to go for it. There doesn't seem to be any really good compelling reason to have another one, and plenty of reasons not to.

Quit while you're ahead.

I am 43 and my children are 10 and 8. We dithered for ages about a third and by the time we decided to try again I then had two miscarriages, my Dad died and my daughter was diagnosed with absence seizures. I couldn’t face another loss. I now hugely regret not trying again. If my youngest was 3 I definitely would. Go for it!

We have 3. To be completely honest, it was 500 times harder than I expected it to be. Friendships, our marriage, finances, holidays, cars, have changed and not for the better.

I would have loved a third. In fact I would have loved any number of children equally - I'm sure it's true that there are no limits on your love for your kids and they would all be loved just as much. BUT there are limits on space, there are limits on cash, and most importantly there are limits on the amount of time and attention you can give each of your children. There is no denying if I'd had a third I just couldn't spend as much time individually with the first two. Kids from larger families so often say they wish their parents had had a bit more time for them. Also there would be quite a lot of things we couldn't do as a family (I'm thinking sports/activities in particular) if we had two older children fairly close in age and then a baby.

If you have two healthy children, you are so lucky compared to many. DH (who doesn't quite share my hormonal broodiness!) has always said to me he feels like trying for a third would have been pushing our luck. As many pps have said, honestly the very last thing this world needs is more people in it. We should really all be trying to persuade people, Attenborough-style, to have fewer children. So instead I volunteer with young kids, (primary school, Homestart, playgroup) I spend time with my nieces and nephews when I can, and I try to appreciate what I have.

I haven’t been in your situation so really can’t understand very well. I have 3 children and I knew pretty soon after number 3 was born that we were done. I have had PND and anxiety after each birth and it has gotten worse each time so I wouldn’t risk any more.

I love having my three but I have found 3 a lot harder than two but that is possibly because of nearly 9 year age gap between middle and youngest.

I guess you’re going to always wonder if you don’t? Maybe you should go for it xx

dp and I had this discussion endlessly. 2 healthy, happy dc, settled life, but always the 'longing' and the 'what if'...

Eventually I came to the conclusion that the 'what if' feeling wasn't the same as us actually practically deciding to have another pregnancy / birth / baby / child.

There are a multitude of decision points in our life - turn left / turn right... the teenage romance that might have been for-ever-after... the job on the other side of the world that we didn't accept... I think each of these give us the feeling of something 'not quite complete' and it is part of being a grown up, responsible adult that we have to learn to cope with these emotions, to accept the decisions made, to not regret the road not taken (and importantly not to try and rekindle the teen romance 20 years later )

What you describe in your OP is a mix of being at a decision point, the particular issue of your embryos, and the practical pros and cons. You can't logic it out, but in your place I'd stick with what I had, and as a now almost 60 year old I am heartfelt thankful that I'm not trying to cope with a teen....

Good luck with your decision.

@Toomuchstuffwillkillme
Interesting point about special needs.
I have a friend who works with severely disabled kids, and at her hen do, her and her friends (mostly from work) mostly agreed that if you had 2 healthy kids and were a bit older, you shouldn't "tempt fate".
stuck out for me because I remember her saying years before she wanted 5 kids (she's one of 6).

I have two kids both via ICSI IVF.
I had 5 frozen embryos.
My exH had agreed when we created them that we would use them.
He kicked the can down the road for years then finally refused. It was very hard, and eventually they timed out under HFEA rules.
The distress caused by having embryos one cannot use is something that I could not have ever understood, prior to all of this.

I wish you luck with your decision. xx

Sorry I just re read my post and I realise that my pain 3 years down the road, has affected what i wrote - apologies.
I guess it is the 'shall i have another baby' dilemma with bells on when a potential baby is 'already started' as it were. A modern dilemma!

You must decide what is correct for you.
Would you try for a 3rd without the blasts existing?
Do you feel ok about donation / research etc
Do you really want another baby regardless of sex?
Are you physically up to another treatment, pg,newborn/toddler?

I wish you peace with the decision you come to and agree that you can take till Christmas if you need to - it's a big decision!

I really think no. I don't mean to be rude, but there's nothing natural about it, you would really be quite old, your husband isn't up for it. Why? There's a good chance it wouldn't work anyway so you'd just be putting herself through a load of heartache for no reason.

I don't know much about ivf so I'm sorry if it's not a correct question.
You talk of donating the embryos to research, is it possible to donate them to prospective future parents?
Would this help with the thought that the embryos would be wasted rather than used. And then this would take that part of the emotional guilt away from the decision to make them into babies yourself.

Based on what you've written, I'd say it's time to let it go. Neither of you sound 100% onboard, plus all the other risk factors people have mentioned.

What I would do is give yourself permission to grieve. Mourn what might have been, celebrate the life that could have happened. If a memorial type service helps you, do it (I don't means big thing, but just whatever feels right to you). Your grief will be real, and it is valid, and it's fine to acknowledge that in order to help you make this decision and let go.

Best of luck whatever you decide!

How will you feel if you transfer the two remain embryos and they don't take?

I'm currently going through IVF and I will be extremely grateful if I have one child from the process.

I know how it feel to think that you are 'throwing' away the frozen embryos but they can provide useful to other would be parents, how wonderful would be if your embryos train up the next line of consultants etc which then go on to allow thousands of other couples the chance of parenthood?

How will your children feel about having a new addition in the family?

As your DH is happy with 2-children, will you have to twist his arm to see your point of view?

I have 3. The 3rd was a real head vs heart decision. We went with head at first, then heart, then I had a MC and then didn't conceive for a bit. So I decided that maybe my head was right. I started planning for future with just 2 - thinking about what I could do when they were both in school, etc. I changed jobs, gave away baby stuff and tried to ignore the aching heart. I figured lots of people never feel 'done' but make a practical decision.

(We did decide to change cars anyway as we wanted a bigger boot, more ability to give our children's friends lifts, etc.)

Then I got pregnant. The pregnancy was shit but I adored and adore my 3rd. During the 1st year I did have moments when I thought about some things (the new job I had to return to, after school activities, etc) would be easier with just 2. But then I'd look at my 3rd and none of that stuff mattered. It sounds corny but it's true. I did feel done. I did feel our family was complete in a contented way that I'd previously told myself didn't exist.

The logistics didn't and don't bother me. We didn't tend to holiday in hotel rooms (that only take 4) anyway. Camping or self-catering places is more our style. The car size proved useful for other reasons too, as we'd thought. The different ages to keep entertained was fine - my children frequently told/tell me they like being 3 because they have more choices for games to play, company to have, and for just time on their own and not feeling obliged to be a play mate.

I can't tell you how you'll feel. Maybe you do just need to give yourself permission to let go of the embryos. But I am completely sure that if we hadn't had 3, it would always have felt as if someone was missing every time we sat down for dinner or had a family movie night. I think if we'd had embryos and had had tried with those and it hadn't worked, or discovered serious secondary infertility then there would have been definite closure to prevent that sense someone was missing. Without that...

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Think about the life you have now. The things you do as a family and what changes you would need to make.

Would you need a bigger car? Extra bedroom? How will you manage getting different kids to different parties and activities? Some activities require certain adult to child ratios - would your existing activities accommodate an extra?

Friends with larger families often form networks of other large families with children of similar ages so they can share lifts to sports events and so on. They make it work with the kids, but they rarely see each other.

I love spending time with DH, so we made the call to keep our family small and spend more time all together rather than where various DC want or need to be.

Whatever choices you make in life you with have some what ifs, but there is much to be thankful for in the present too.

I’m normally quite against women trying for babies past 40, when most could have tried younger and didn’t for their career. But you have these frozen embryos, that’s a bit of a game changer. I’m not sure if I could let them go.

Go for it. I think you’ll regret it if you don’t try.

@Hobsbawm I'm so glad you posted. I'm 29 weeks pregnant with my third and so many people seem quite negative about the downsides of a slightly larger family, it's been getting me down. Your experience makes it sound so doable. We are like you, already have a 7 seater car anyway and tend to do camping or caravan holidays where it's a bit more flexible, I'm hoping we adapt the way you have.