AIBU to be so paralysed with indecision about a 3rd child? Need to decide today / tomorrow

[shallweshantwe2019]

IVF / pregnancy loss / should we stick at two or try for three? / I'm nearly 42 / need to decide today / tomorrow!

'You don't regret the children you have!' - that's a cliché that always comes up when I google this question. Is it true?

I am literally going crazy with indecision on whether to have a third. Been considering it since start of this year and DH has told me he wouldn't have suggested it, it's not his preference, he feels complete with two but will support my decision as doesn't want me to regret not trying later. The crucial info is that we have 2 x good quality embryos in storage from an earlier IVF cycle when I was much younger. I need to decide asap (period this month is looming today or tomorrow and that's when I need to start the process) whether to try for a third using them. (We may 'resolve' the remaining embryos issue if we try and we may not. Maybe the first embryo defrosted will be suitable for transfer and if so we would still have one left that we have no intention of using as definitely wouldn't want 4 children. So going ahead with the treatment doesn't guarantee that we'd resolve the issue completely. This would only happen if one or both of the embryos defrosted were judged not suitable for transfer....)

I have 2 x DS (one is 7 and one is 3). Eldest is IVF, then had two MCs (one IVF frozen cycle loss and one natural conception loss) and youngest is a natural conception. The IVF process, the MCs and the second pregnancy were all emotionally hard and stressful, even though I have two beautiful boys as a result. The pregnancies were fine but second very stressful due to previous losses and the births were different - typical long complicated labour with the first and much quicker and easier with the second. I am nearly 42. Eldest arrived when I was 34 and youngest when I was 38.

What's pushing the desire for a third?

• Feeling not quite 'done'. (Does every feel this? How did you get over it?)
• Feeling of obligation to use the remaining blastocyst embryos we have (even if practically we might only actually use one in a cycle and would then have to let the remaining one 'go to research'.) I feel like I'd be wasting them, killing them even, to not even try to use them to get pregnant. I would mourn this as much as anything and know I would always wonder what they look like.
• My youngest starts FT school next year. Feeling like a phase of my life is over and anxious about what comes next.
• I am one of two and due to a v large age gap me and my sibling are not especially close. I would like my sons to be close and think having an extra sibling would give them more family (obv!)
• I am already an 'older' mum. I will already be 56 when my youngest heads off to uni if he goes, and I'll be nearly 60 when he graduates. (My mum had me relatively old and passed away recently in her mid-70s. I miss her so and wish she was here to be gran to my boys. But this doesn't mean I don't wish I had the boys...! And none of us know how long we have and if we'll have or live to meet grandchildren anyway...)

What's holding me back?

• Wondering if the 'not done' feeling comes from the fact I have these embryos there, waiting and the fact that my other two are just growing up i.e. a normal phase that all mums go through. I wouldn't be pushing to try to conceive afresh at my age due to worries about genetic abnormalities.
• The one embryo we used previously from the frozen batch didn't work so it's entirely possible these won't either as they are slightly less good quality.
• The increase in 'to do' and 'stuff' that a third would bring.
• Lack of time with any one child, feeling spread too thin.

-Lack of time for me and husband

• Worry about every stage - the frozen embryo cycle and if it works will I be happy or worried, the 9 mths of pregnancy, possible miscarriage especially if later on, the extra medical intervention that is inevitable being a 40+ pregnant, possible birth complications (NICU or stillbirth...) and impact of all this on me, my other two children and husband...
• DH says a 3rd cannot be easier in any way. I'm sure he's right, at least in the short-medium term.
• Holidays and activities would need to cut back with three children.

So, if we go for it and it works we'll need to change my car for a bigger one (DH has a work car so no option to change that and it won't take 3 child seats in the back), will need to move soon-ish (before or after baby 3 is born (to a bigger house and massively declutter a loft and garage before that). I will need to take 12 mths mat leave again (I only get SMP in my job which pays £13k gross PA - DH earns £50k gross and is secure). Both boys will be in FT school come Sept 2020 so bulk of childcare will be just for #3 when I return to work and I'd have all day with the bay when on mat leave. I work part time currently and would go back part time after any 3rd baby.

Do I throw caution to the wind and at least try? Or is that crazy and irrational?

If we don't go for it, how to I move on mentally and emotionally? Will I need to grieve? Will the wonder 'what if?' ever go away?

I've had a couple of counselling sessions at the IVF clinic but to no avail.
DH says I just need to decide and not feel guilty either way and move on either way. Decision-making especially of this kind is not my strong point.

I can see positives later down the line of having 3 children and the immediate oxytocin rush of a newborn is like a drug but I feel there's a lot of tough stuff to get through between now and then and the later, more independent children stage.

Stick or twist? Be happy with the two I have who are more than I ever thought I would have or try for one more? Which regret is harder to live with?

I know people get pregnant at my age unplanned and it all works out fine but we would be actively taking steps to get pregnant which is different. And this would be our third, not a much-longed for 1st at the same age.

Please help. I can't function for thinking about this all.

If you had similar dilemmas - sticking at 2, not using good left over embryos - how did you make peace with it all?
(DH and I agree we couldn't donate embryos to another couple.)

HELP!!

On the 'mum-daughter' relationship I can relate. I have a fantastic relationship with my mum. I love her to bits and talk to her everyday.

I have 2 boys. Part of me was disappointed that I wouldn't experience the mum-daughter relationship again once my mum dies but as someone wise on MN once said, there is no guarantee that I would have that relationship with a daughter.

I am not my mum. And my DD wouldn't be me. And it's not fair to have a child and have an expectation of a certain kind of relationship with them.

I adore my boys. And they adore me. I can't see us losing contact when they're older. DH rings his mum every day and we see her very frequently (despite the 4 hour round trip).

DH wants a 3rd. I don't. Well, I kinda do but I know that the impact on our current life would just be too big and it's not fair on my 2 boys (even though they ask for a baby...;). I wouldn't be a good mummy to 3, I'd be stretched too thin.

I don't think you'd be umming and arring if it was something you really wanted

OP re the last blast (if you were to try successfully with one and had one left), I’ve heard of people transferring the last embryo at a period in the cycle where it can’t implant - so you are not destroying the embryo

I am in the same situation, we have 2 ds 6 and 2. The second was IVF and we had 2 blasts frozen. They took but unfortunately I miscarried them early on.

I don’t feel I am done though, I am 40 in a few months and always thought that would be a natural deadline for me but I’m not ready to stop trying yet!

You seem to have thought the practicalities through, in your shoes I would do it in a heartbeat.

Go for it! You have love to give and the child will have a stable home is the most important thing! :)

Thanks so much for the further replies.

I'll try to respond.

Someone asked if I would feel relieved or sad if a mistake was made at the clinic and the embryos accidentally lost... I am erring towards saying relief because the decision would have been taken out of my hands. I would wonder what might have bee but would probably tell myself that using the embryos wouldn't have been sure to lead to a baby anyway.

Someone said I could transfer both as I'm over 40 but I would not consider that due to the risk of multiples and neither would DH. The temptation to transfer more than one embryo was there with our first fresh cycle but the twins risk scared me too much then too so we just did one.

MrsHardbroom - I am also very risk-averse and a complete worrier and guilt feeler. Not very helpful traits in moments like this!

No fertility issues but done with 2 at 38. Being pregnant with my first at 34 was a breeze, I was naive and just got on with everything. 2nd at 37 was much tougher, physically and mentally- anaemia, couldn't breathe thanks to head in diaphragm and I avoided the joys of pelvic pain etc.

Ignoring the practicalities of 3 (car, house) the physical realities of pregnancy were the deal breaker!

bedtimestories - this is what DH says...

I think nearly every woman goes through this “should we shouldn’t we” thought process at certain points. I’ve been going through it too due to my age and my youngest starting school. I imagine it’s made all the harder by having embryos there as a real connection to a potential 3rd or 4th baby.

We decided to stick with 2, mainly due to logistics (boring I know!). Everyone we know with more than 2 children are pretty frazzled. They love their children, that is not in question. But their lives are one big whirl of logistical juggling. For some people they love it, thrive on it. For others they are finding it tough. We decided we love our life and the balance we have with the children we have got. I think the thoughts about having another baby were only there because the option to have another one is disappearing.

I hope you come to a happy decision

I know it's horribly controversial to say this. ... but i too crave a daughter. So if I were in your position I'd find a clinic willing to gender screen and if one of the remaining eggs was a girl, I'd consider it fate and go for it. If it doesn't work out, I'd consider that fate too and just transfer the final one.

You don't need to change your car for 3 kids unless you have a tiny 2 door car. We just transferred our oldest child to the front seat in his booster - and 2 baby seats in the back by the windows and one parent sits in the middle - the other drives. When we are done with car seats, all 3 kids will fit in the back.

Likewise bedrooms - we haven't moved from our small bed. It's slightly unequal in that 2 share the larger room and youngest is in the box room to spare the older 2 from night feed disturbances. But we hope in the future to be able to move to a 4 bed. But even then there will be inequality as all bedrooms will be different sizes no doubt. But at the end of the day - I was one of 3 and I loved my box room. It was cosy and just for me (other 2 siblings shared). So didn't feel unequal.

I get from your post you want a 3rd. Times may be hard with 3 but you will get through it and it's balanced out with good times. And yes holidays may be cut back, but you can still have decent holidays and it's replaced by having another character to laugh and play with all year round. I say go for it.

We have an only ivf child - 3 attempts - and destroyed 5 embryos as I was too ill to have another. Pregnancy was very hard on me. If you’re only prepared to transfer one, my first thought was not to go for it. The chances of pregnancy diminishes with age. The protocols vary in different European countries perhaps as I was told over 35 and I could transfer 2 embryos.

Small three bed house is what I meant to say. Not small bed. We're not an entire family living in just 1 bed lol!

To be honest, it sounds like you don't really want 3 in your heart of hearts, but you feel like you need "permission" in some way to stick with 2 when it was so hard to get there?
I was going to say similar to a pp - imagine the clinic calls you and says there's been an accident and the embryos have been destroyed - how do you feel? - relief says a lot!

Sparadrap - thank you! I think personality is a big factor, aside from biological urges. As you say, I know I would be more frazzled and have maybe been kidding myself that once both boys are in FT school a year from now life will be so much easier than having a newborn alongside would be fine. I would definitely have more time in the school day while on mat leave with any 3rd (was tied to pre-school drop off and pick up when DS2 was a baby) but I also know that if DS2 is like DS1 he will want to do a fair few activities outside school plus the parties, after school clubs, homework and play dates and I'd quite like some time with my children too - lol! And maybe time for me. That's a big thing, actually. I don't know many mums of 3 specifically who do much for themselves even when the kids are past the baby stage. Maybe I'm too selfish to give that up for a 3rd?

We have 2 dc (4 and 5) and had always planned/wanted three, after having our dc so close together we just weren't ready for a further small age gap so took a bit of time during which dp decided he really didn't want a third. I think he would have had another if I had pushed hard for it(I didn't feel done). This was 2 years ago and I now think he was right. I was very sad at the time but his reasons were really good ones, we would have been financially stretched, we have little/no family support, we would have been stretched with regard to our time etc. The financial aspect isn't just about having a bigger house, it's about the opportunities we could offer two, music lessons, sports etc- also just the logistics of fully supporting three.
One of my friends has 3 (1 in school and 2 pre schooler) and is finding it very, very tough. Her dh is completely supportive but there is always one needing attention and not getting it. Swimming lessons/shopping/school stuff, just normal everyday life stuff is all being compromised all of the time. Their marriage (which I would consider a great one)is being put to the test. My sister has three and whist she doesn't regret it as such, she advised me against it. She says having three teenagers was just so expensive, difficult and emotionally draining.
Coming to terms with not having three dc was very hard for me tbh. I found making the final decision and that being absolutely the end of it helped. I got rid of all of the baby things and really started to enjoy the benefits of having two. Obviously my youngest started school this month and I've been an emotional wreck but it's been the right decision over all!!

On balance what would be the worst outcome emotionally and mentally for you: Giving it a shot knowing all manner of things could go wrong e.g miscarriage or living with (occasional) pangs of regret for not having even tried?

I think the odds of embryos stores that long surviving are quite low. Given your attatchment to them and feelings of guilt I feel you need to just go for it, with an open mind, with both embryos implanted given the odds. If somehow it works you will work out a plan.

shallweshantwe2019 I think you have thought a bit too much about this!

But never mind what your head says, what does your Heart want?

I think you know the answer:)

PhDone - I think there is something in what you've said there...'permission.

Have only read the OP and don't have experience of IVF but a couple of thoughts come to my mind.

When you asked if all women feel 'not quite done', no, ime they don't. I didn't. I knew how many children I wanted (4) and I kept going until I had them. When the 4th was born, I had a huge feeling of 'my family is now complete' and I never really veered from that, from that moment onwards. So the fact that you are feeling incomplete speaks volumes.

I can't know what it is like to have formed embryos sitting there available for use. Maybe it doesn't feel that way to you, but to me, I would feel I wanted to use what has already been started, iyswim. Of course, that doesn't mean you should, but I could see it might be an extra factor pushing you towards another child.

My detached opinion is that if you are thinking about another child, it is probably the right thing to try for. But set against that, is the thought that I had my last child, like you, at 38 and I felt quite old and tired having him. I can't imagine how I would have coped with having another at 42.

I wanted two but didn't feel done after and had a niggle. I went back and forth and spoke to a a lot of people. What was resounding from those I asked who had two was any who considered a third and didn't go for it regretted it down the line. That swung it for me and I went for it. It was the best decision ever and I have two beautiful girls and a boy.

I'd try to 'give them a chance' because you are attached in a way, but remember that, as you say yourself, there are no guarantees.

I would go for it, and leave it up to fate. I’d worry about leaving embryos in a lab, or destroying them. I’m not religious at all, maybe just overly emotional.

Although it doesn’t matter what anyone says. You will read a response from someone, and something will click. You’ll have your answer. Good luck OP

I’m 40, with 3 older boys in high school and middle school
And we agonised over number 4.

She’s with my second husband, he had no children, but I was terrified of losing my boys, or having a complicated medical experience and not seeing them grow up.

I honestly don’t think I’ll wver not feel broody when I see a newborn but I’m so so glad I had her. Yes, I’m old, yes, I’m knackered.....and we don’t have heaps of spare cash but we’re so happy. She’s amazing and I’m really enjoying the stages more now I’m a bit older and calmer.

@IndefatiguableMouse thank you for posting. I'm in a similar position, have more frozen embryos after ivf for dc2, but feel "done" with 2. Made the decision to donate to research but due to a technicality we have to re-do the forms and I'm almost waivering, like fate has given us an extra chance!

However I know I'd be an exhausted grouchy mum with 3. I love my 2 loads and just want to get on with the kid stage but the baby stage. But now my eldest is in school my toddler seems impossibly cute and I can't bear the thought of him growing up into a stroppy threenager! All it really means is my 99% certainty has gone down to 95%...

Sometimes if you cant work out what to do by looking at the Pros on each side of a decision, it helps to compare the two sets of Cons.

So Cons of having 2 DC
Cons of having 3 DC

That might give you more clarity

Its the doctors mantra on when there isnt a clear path of how to treat, you ‘Do the least harm’