AIBU to be so paralysed with indecision about a 3rd child? Need to decide today / tomorrow

[shallweshantwe2019]

IVF / pregnancy loss / should we stick at two or try for three? / I'm nearly 42 / need to decide today / tomorrow!

'You don't regret the children you have!' - that's a cliché that always comes up when I google this question. Is it true?

I am literally going crazy with indecision on whether to have a third. Been considering it since start of this year and DH has told me he wouldn't have suggested it, it's not his preference, he feels complete with two but will support my decision as doesn't want me to regret not trying later. The crucial info is that we have 2 x good quality embryos in storage from an earlier IVF cycle when I was much younger. I need to decide asap (period this month is looming today or tomorrow and that's when I need to start the process) whether to try for a third using them. (We may 'resolve' the remaining embryos issue if we try and we may not. Maybe the first embryo defrosted will be suitable for transfer and if so we would still have one left that we have no intention of using as definitely wouldn't want 4 children. So going ahead with the treatment doesn't guarantee that we'd resolve the issue completely. This would only happen if one or both of the embryos defrosted were judged not suitable for transfer....)

I have 2 x DS (one is 7 and one is 3). Eldest is IVF, then had two MCs (one IVF frozen cycle loss and one natural conception loss) and youngest is a natural conception. The IVF process, the MCs and the second pregnancy were all emotionally hard and stressful, even though I have two beautiful boys as a result. The pregnancies were fine but second very stressful due to previous losses and the births were different - typical long complicated labour with the first and much quicker and easier with the second. I am nearly 42. Eldest arrived when I was 34 and youngest when I was 38.

What's pushing the desire for a third?

• Feeling not quite 'done'. (Does every feel this? How did you get over it?)
• Feeling of obligation to use the remaining blastocyst embryos we have (even if practically we might only actually use one in a cycle and would then have to let the remaining one 'go to research'.) I feel like I'd be wasting them, killing them even, to not even try to use them to get pregnant. I would mourn this as much as anything and know I would always wonder what they look like.
• My youngest starts FT school next year. Feeling like a phase of my life is over and anxious about what comes next.
• I am one of two and due to a v large age gap me and my sibling are not especially close. I would like my sons to be close and think having an extra sibling would give them more family (obv!)
• I am already an 'older' mum. I will already be 56 when my youngest heads off to uni if he goes, and I'll be nearly 60 when he graduates. (My mum had me relatively old and passed away recently in her mid-70s. I miss her so and wish she was here to be gran to my boys. But this doesn't mean I don't wish I had the boys...! And none of us know how long we have and if we'll have or live to meet grandchildren anyway...)

What's holding me back?

• Wondering if the 'not done' feeling comes from the fact I have these embryos there, waiting and the fact that my other two are just growing up i.e. a normal phase that all mums go through. I wouldn't be pushing to try to conceive afresh at my age due to worries about genetic abnormalities.
• The one embryo we used previously from the frozen batch didn't work so it's entirely possible these won't either as they are slightly less good quality.
• The increase in 'to do' and 'stuff' that a third would bring.
• Lack of time with any one child, feeling spread too thin.

-Lack of time for me and husband

• Worry about every stage - the frozen embryo cycle and if it works will I be happy or worried, the 9 mths of pregnancy, possible miscarriage especially if later on, the extra medical intervention that is inevitable being a 40+ pregnant, possible birth complications (NICU or stillbirth...) and impact of all this on me, my other two children and husband...
• DH says a 3rd cannot be easier in any way. I'm sure he's right, at least in the short-medium term.
• Holidays and activities would need to cut back with three children.

So, if we go for it and it works we'll need to change my car for a bigger one (DH has a work car so no option to change that and it won't take 3 child seats in the back), will need to move soon-ish (before or after baby 3 is born (to a bigger house and massively declutter a loft and garage before that). I will need to take 12 mths mat leave again (I only get SMP in my job which pays £13k gross PA - DH earns £50k gross and is secure). Both boys will be in FT school come Sept 2020 so bulk of childcare will be just for #3 when I return to work and I'd have all day with the bay when on mat leave. I work part time currently and would go back part time after any 3rd baby.

Do I throw caution to the wind and at least try? Or is that crazy and irrational?

If we don't go for it, how to I move on mentally and emotionally? Will I need to grieve? Will the wonder 'what if?' ever go away?

I've had a couple of counselling sessions at the IVF clinic but to no avail.
DH says I just need to decide and not feel guilty either way and move on either way. Decision-making especially of this kind is not my strong point.

I can see positives later down the line of having 3 children and the immediate oxytocin rush of a newborn is like a drug but I feel there's a lot of tough stuff to get through between now and then and the later, more independent children stage.

Stick or twist? Be happy with the two I have who are more than I ever thought I would have or try for one more? Which regret is harder to live with?

I know people get pregnant at my age unplanned and it all works out fine but we would be actively taking steps to get pregnant which is different. And this would be our third, not a much-longed for 1st at the same age.

Please help. I can't function for thinking about this all.

If you had similar dilemmas - sticking at 2, not using good left over embryos - how did you make peace with it all?
(DH and I agree we couldn't donate embryos to another couple.)

HELP!!

Put it another way - if a natural pregnancy was possible for you, would you be using contraception to prevent it or letting nature decide? If it's the latter, then perhaps a third baby is for you. I had my third in my 40s, naturally, and have to say a lot of people on here are over-egging the risks. It was fine and as you say your embies are a product of you and your partner almost a decade ago so it's a very different and more positive situation.
Good luck with whatever you decide.

I think this dilemma is common in people who have remaining embryos after fertility treatment. FWIW we decided to stick at one but after a lot of soul searching about our remaining frostie, which I have now donated to research. For me, one of the concerns was the potential longer term health implications of going through hormonal treatment again. Before I had a child I didn't think twice about it but once she was here it became an issue for me. Also felt like I'd beaten the odds by even having one happy healthy child (it took 7 cycles) so didn't want to take any risks re our lovely family life. You may notice I am fairly risk averse! But I totally understand your attachment to your embryos, as well as the sadness around the childbearing part of your life being potentially over. I have struggled with that a bit.

Op have you cleared out all your baby stuff? Could you start clearing it out tonight?

That was the decision maker for me. If you aren't ready to do that then give the 2 embryos a go.

As you are over 40 they will allow you to transfer 2 which solves the issue for the last one.

I have never been in your exact situation, as I never needed IVF. But me and my DH did have the talk about having a third, I went threw a period where I wanted a third, I missed the baby phase, what I did was picture each scenario as if they were real and how I felt about each one, I could picture 3 within the baby phase, but to have a 2 year old, a 4 year old and a 7 year old filled me with dread and I knew I couldn't do it financially or mentally. I knew I would regret having a 3rd more than not, I know that sounds horrible, but it's true, so my DH had a vasectomy.
Could you sit and do that, sit somewhere you can relax and picture each situation, you having a third child (not baby), not having a third and trying for a third and it not happening. How does each make you feel?

I didn't have IVF but did have multiple miscarriages before first and second child. I turned 40 just before I had my second child.

I had an elective section due to non engagement of second baby and my consultant asked me twice beforehand if I wanted sterilisation during surgery as it was simple to do then and I had two, would I want more? Immediately, both times she asked I was horrified as I thought no I may want another child. By the time my second was 3 I knew I didn't want another baby.

You're not sure, which makes me wonder if you actually do want a baby

Put yourself in your own boots 10 years from now, you'll be 52, embryos would have been either used or disposed of /given to somebody else (do they do that!?) - ask yourself how would you feel if you :

1 still only had two boys but you'd tried again and failed,
2 had three boys,
3 had two boys and a girl,
4 or didn't try just left it completely

Difficult I know but you've got to do it - write your pro and con list for each one and do the maths

Good luck!

I actually do know a few who have regretted going for dc3. Not the child, I don't think many people regret their children, but big regrets on having 3.

I personally have 2 DC and feel my family is complete, but have thought about dc3. Why? Because I think Mother Nature programs us that way!

I wouldn't. If I could go back I wouldn't of had my 3rd. I love him very much but it is so very very hard, so hard and also expensive and everything has to change when a 3rd comes along, like the size of your house and the size of your car etc. Also means you won't have the right amount of time or energy for the older 2 and they will miss out on so much. Just concentrate on the 2 beautiful kids you have and your husband.

If you didn’t have the stored embryos, would you still go for a third? I think the answer to that will help to simplify your thought process.

I haven’t got experience of IVF but appreciate the finality must be quite hard with this sort of decision. For what it’s worth I’ve had moments of 2 v 3 but I’ve come to terms with being done at 2. One of the biggest reasons is financial but also time for the children and not having enjoyed the newborn phase with no.2. I feel like I have closure and can make the decision not to try with both my head and heart. You are clearly torn in a way that I’m not and It seems like you do want to go for it.

I sympathise OP, you express yourself so well and it’s very clear how conflicted you are on this. It’s an awful predicament.

Sadly, much as IVF enhances people’s lives greatly, it does throw up many ethical issues.

Imagine that tomorrow the company rings you up to apologise profusely and tell you that in a dreadful error your embryos have been destroyed.

Feel relief that the decision is out if your hands? Don't go for it.

Feel sad for what might have been?
Go for it.

Are you more likely to regret that you didn't try, or that you did? Going for it does not mean that you will end up with a baby. Not going for it means you certainly won't.

I would not. Nobody needs 3 DC. You have 2 healthy DC already. I would really count my blessings and move on.

At 42, there are risks involved and you have a higher chance of having a child with a disability even though the eggs are younger.

plus your husband doesn't want a third. That should settle the debate in any case.

sometime, it just makes send to be grateful for what one has and you have a lot. don't be greedy.

It is something only you can decide. I made a decision not to have a third child as my husband wasn't keen though he would have done whatever I wanted. It has taken me a long time to feel happy about that, but now I can't imagine things being any different and now they are older I honestly can't imagine the cost of it all and am relieved we didn't. Obviously, you having embryos ready and waiting makes it different for you.

I have 2 boys and they are great company and we are really close. I am sure a daughter would have been wonderful too, but there are no guarantees we would have had that mother daughter relationship that people dream of and I feel I have equivalent with my sons anyway.

Hi

I have done the same back and forth agonising over decision making for years about having another child (although mine was about adding a second rather than a third) a lot of your very good reasons were the same as mine

I also wondered if it was just because I was reaching the point of no return with fertility age wise and whether we would always regret not trying ( although we haven't been through ivf)

Anyway after much deliberating we did try thinking it wouldn't happen and it did miraculously. We were happy and I started to look forward to our future as a family of four albeit with all the potential problems I had envisaged in my cons list eg big age gap, less money etc

Anyway sadly it went very wrong and I had an ectopic which required surgical removal. I feel awful and I now feel that it was fates way of telling me that I was pushing my luck. I know that is not rational or helpful way of thinking but it's all very raw still. I feel that fate is punishing me for dithering and not being sure. Again I know this isn't rational but just wanted to explain how I felt

Had I not tried I wouldn't have gone through this and now I don't think I can try again with increased risks and this experience will take a long time to get over

With your situation however at least they will ensure it is in the right place and presumably test for any chromosomal issues which will reduce risk of miscarriage.

It's a very difficult decision and I am quite risk averse by nature so it took me a long time to try

I don't know what the right answer is for you but I understand how tricky it is. Wishing you the best of luck

You also need to figure out what you could live with: trying and it failing, trying and having one or two more children with all the ups and downs that brings or not trying at all.

Only you can answer that.

Personally I have three but my opinion on that doesn’t help you here. The fact that we enjoy having three despite the challenges isn’t relevant to your situation. Yes, it’s hard and expensive and stressful at times bbt equally it enormous fun and the older ones adore the little one and don’t mind that they get a bit less of my attention. They are far from neglected!

But that’s not relevant. You have an ethical dilemma on your hands - the worst kind!

You need to project forward ten years and decide how you’ll feel in every outcome.

Have you considered how you would cope with a child that has severe disabilities? Do your existing children have their own rooms and will having another baby mean that they now have to share a bedroom?

I don't think anyone's suggested this yet, but could you donate the remaining embryos to another couple, that way they 'have a chance'. A friend did this as she didn't want anymore DC but didn't want the embryos destroyed.

We had 2 blasts in the freezer. We had 1 IVF baby together and i also have 2 step children. I kept thinking about the frozen embryos as my potential unborn children and i couldn't imagine destroying them or donating them. So we went for it- both defrosted and had both of them put back in. My DD was the result- she is a complete madam and i love her to bits. Our house is nuts and we don't regret it at all...personally I would not have dealt with "what if" very well if we hadn't. I had both of mine in my 40's. Good luck with your decision. Xx

Presumably if you put both eggs in there’s a chance you’ll have twins? Are you ok with four children?

We are biologically programmed to continue to be broody. Much of what you write is an idealised version of having a girl - this baby might be a boy, if it's a girl your boys might hate her, you might not have the easiest relationship.

I agree with other posters who say leave it - and because your DH says he wouldn't really choose to have one. it's an incredible strain to put on a marriage and another person if they don't want it.

One child, years of IVF then a natural conception leading to DD now 12, and a subsequent MC. Get on with your life. (Meant kindly, and I agree there's no need to be rude!)

I know this sounds harsh but you already have 2, the world really doesn't need any more humans in it.

Your husband also doesnt sound keen.

Be thankful for what you have.

x

I think no. For such an important matter, there shouldn't be this level of indecision. You have got to be totally committed as a couple to bring a new child into the world.

I’ve been on a few support groups for women who have needed hysterectomies - and what I can add is that a large number of the women regardless of age, reason for the operation, or number of existing children, are very conflicted about the “what ifs” of another baby.
I think for many this is natural and biological, so I wouldn’t confuse your logical arguments with the emotional/spiritual pulls.

Some very practical friends of mine know for definite when they’re done. They tend to be the kind of mums with orderly and seemingly less stressful lives. I think many of the rest of us keep wishing emotionally that we could have another until the menopause or something else makes the decision for us.
In my case I always wanted a third, but after 2 at 40, I just felt so physically exhausted and frazzled. I knew i might struggle to cope with a third.
Now, I look back on it - still with regret - but also with relief, because both DC have asd, and suitable schooling has cost us a fortune!
Plus, I’ve not been able to work at times, because of their extra needs.

This is such a personal question that I’m not sure anyone can help you answer it. But, you should recognise that it’s one that’s been foisted on you a lot by things beyond your control (ie, hormones, body clock, fertility issues, etc), and please don’t beat yourself up because you are struggling to resolve it.
It’s really tough.you should be kind to yourself, and I’d recommend lifting the deadline you’ve imposed.
Hugs xx

I had DC1 when I was 37, after years of infertility treatment. He was conceived within a month of our first attempt at IVF. Our second attempt failed and, when I reached 42, my personal cut off age, I said enough was enough.

However, DH begged me to have on last go, so that’s what we did. Amazingly, we had 11 high quality embryos from that 3rd IVF, when the first two had been very disappointing. At that time, the doctors would agree to 3 being transferred. So we did that and asked for the others to be destroyed. I felt sad, but I simply couldn’t go through it again. To be honest, I had no expectations of it being successful.

Anyway, I had twins - now fabulous teenagers. I can’t say that it has been easy - the early years were particularly hard - but I wouldn’t change a thing. I agree that, as you get older, you want your own life back and are less willing to be looking after everyone. Also, do not underestimate how much the passing of the years has an impact on health. Even the fittest of us have little issues such as arthritis to deal with. Finally, I do mourn the fact that I am unlikely to be around long enough to see grand children, or at least see them grow up. But it is what it is.

I hope you can make a decision which is ight for you soon.

It's quite clear from your (enormous!) OP that you've got lots and lots of thoughts whirling round and round uncontrollably in your head, and it's making it impossible to think straight. I think that's not going to get any easier until you take some pressure off yourself by dropping the idea that you must make a decision about this today or tomorrow. My advice is to tell yourself (and DH) that you aren't going to make a final decision about this til Christmas. And then breathe. Live your life. Obviously you'll think about it but don't let yourself agonise. I would be astonished if the right thing to do doesn't present itself to you by then, but no one can make good decisions in a state of time-pressed panic.