AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

[Hey1256]

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

@Cornettoninja I agree it does sound like I'm the common denominator. I guess I am and I didn't take it as a bitchy comment.

I think the reason I am is because I expect too much from people clearly.

I've had enough. I will pull back, and if people make the effort back then great if not then I'll move on with my life and soon will start a family of my own hopefully and focus on that.

On the headspace issue, my Mum came to stay and help when DD1 was born. My brother came to visit while Mum was with us about a week after DD1 was born, Mum was doing all the cooking and housework, I was just looking after the baby (with Mum and DH in the house for support). I love my brother and he's an easy visitor to have and I had NOTHING to think about or prepare for him coming because Mum was doing everything. I was in tears the night before because I didn't know how I was going to be able to cope with him in the house. Combination of baby blues and exhaustion.

Later, when you are finally getting full nights sleep again and are back at work and life is on track again it's possible to have

“Maybe parenting is more demanding than I understand it to be, who knows”

When my kids were under 5, a lot of the time I simply didn’t have physical time or emotional energy to spare. Depression, years of sleep deprivation, being very conscious of being boring.

My friends, who mostly do have kids, all get this, and we’ve all allowed each other long periods of “friendship downtime”, which has actually been the bedrock of some really solid relationships in the long term.

Some people just can’t get that, yes, sometimes, even a 10 word text just feels like another thing weighing you down. And I understand that some people will never understand that, and that’s fine, but me and my friends all do, and we’ve been able to cut each other the required slack to get through the relentless early years period. And the people who don’t get it, I guess, have just slipped away.

Some people just can’t get that, yes, sometimes, even a 10 word text just feels like another thing weighing you down*

I can totally understand this feeling. But I'm talking periods of months gone by?

It’s REALLY easy for months to slip by when you’ve got little kids! Because there is always something demanding your attention, and virtually no downtime.

It is tough and interesting to hear it from the other side of this as I lost most of my friends when I became a parent.

I had twins which is a double whammy and my day was so strictly scheduled with them for the first year and a half of their lives. They spent the first four months of their lives in NICU and I had friends fall out with me for not going to see them, despite my telling them I was living at the hospital with my DC (some of these “friends” were parents too).

When they came home they were really low weight, DD was on oxygen, the flat we lived in was tiny and I had a neighbour who was all kinds of crazy and would either keep me and the children awake in the early hours of the morning because he was playing his music at odd hours outside, on full blast or be attempting to attack me and other neighbours if we ran into him (he even tried to spit on my twins in their pushchair). I explained my situation to friends (child free and mothers alike) and they lost interest after a while because I was, in their minds, a martyr.

After apologising over and over again for not being able to make certain events (poorly prem twins, psycho neighbour, absolutely exhausted and brassic so couldn’t afford the events anyway!) I gave up too - I felt I had been the one left behind and I’m sure they felt I was using any and all excuses to not make any effort.

It’s a hard change from both sides I think. I have no friends left really and so my focus has become more dedicated to my family. I do miss them, but I couldn’t handle being the let down all the time because my reasons to them were excuses and there was seemingly little to no empathy in return.

It could be your friend is really struggling. When my twins were small babies any snatched time I had for myself I spent recharging (I’m an introvert by nature) and a conversation, whether by text, messenger or telephone would have been another mental drain on my brain that was already mush. Also those who were child free in my friendship circle got fed up with my main conversation topic being my DC. I haven’t lost the person I was, but it has fundamentally changed and the hobbies that were my main focus are now hobbies I do as and when I might get a chance.

Their Dad is brilliant and has always been hands on, but he works full time and so when he gets back from work we use that time to be a family, same for weekends really. Plus visits from my parents and his have increased exponentially since the twins arrived so any time we might get to go out is taken up with them coming to see their Grandchildren

Time races by when you have young kids. Two minutes turns into two months and there are loads of things you intend to do but somehow don’t quite get to. Your friends may well have thought oh I’ll text Hey now, picked up the phone, baby started crying, fed baby, picked up phone again, typed two letters, toddler fell over, phone abandoned, and repeat et al until parent falls exhausted into bed with the good intention to text having abandoned their mind. Repeat the following day/week/month.

Try setting your alarm every 2 hours overnight. Each time it goes off, stay awake by walking round for at least an hour. Repeat this every. single. night. for 3 months. I reckon this would be a perfect simulation to show you how typing nine letters can be just a step too far.

Friends do re-emerge at some point (usually when the youngest child goes to school and they get some sleep). Give it time. It’ll come back.

@2015newstart

We're not having children, for a number of reasons, and I do wonder if I'm facing a very lonely future

You’re not! There are more women (and men) than ever who don’t want children so not everyone will be off being consumed by child rearing! I think it seems far lonelier being a parent where you live for your children and don’t have much of a life outside of them especially in the early years. You hear mums on hear all the time wishing they had 5 minutes to themselves or that they would kill for an adult conversation over coffee.

I feel lonely too. Almost everyone I know has children and group meet ups tend to focus on that shared experience.

If we don’t / can’t have children, I’m really struggling to find my place in the world. Feel as if my husband and I increasingly insular.

But I'm talking periods of months gone by?

Dude, I’m always still slightly surprised it’s not 2017! (My dd is 3)

I don’t want to patronise you but it’s so intense when you live it. It’s a major life change and all areas are affected by it. It can take a long time to get back on track.

I agree it’s probably best for you to lower your expectations and keep up a loose connection with the friends you really value. Friendships ebb and flow and sometimes you just have to go with it.

Also I really struggle with the stuff about how time races by if you have children.
Do you think child free people are just sitting doing nothing all day.
The implication is that a parents time is more precious than a childfree persons time and genuinely I think that is what a lot of parents actually think.

We're not having children, for a number of reasons, and I do wonder if I'm facing a very lonely future

Please don’t worry, it doesn’t have to be like that. I found myself at a point where a lot of my friends had disappeared due to children so I found other things to do with my spare time. Through a new hobby I’ve met a lot of people, some of whom have become good friends and my life has moved off in a different direction. I’m not lonely at all :)

The irony, however, is that going off to do new things has led some of my old now-bechilded friends to say “Oh, you’re always off doing such interesting things”, having completely missed the point that I’m doing these things because they’ve disappeared.

Some friendships survive, some don’t. I have friends who’ve had everything thrown at them and who’ve still managed a text on my birthday or who’ve made reciprocal effort for a very rare catchup even through it’s long round trip. Others live a few miles away and have dropped me with not so much as a backward glance for years of friendship. The former survive, even if there is a few years of hiatus, the latter don’t.

I’d also add that that some of the reasons for parents dropping friendships in this thread apply to non-parents too - poor mental or physical health can be universal and it’s not a competition as to who is suffering the most. And dropping friends out of jealousy because you don’t want to hear about their ‘nice’ life/holidays/work promotion/book they’ve just read is a horrible thing to do. I suspect that’s been the reason behind the cooling of at least one of my friendships - I can do without people like that in my life.

I feel lonely too. Almost everyone I know has children and group meet ups tend to focus on that shared experience. If we don’t / can’t have children, I’m really struggling to find my place in the world. Feel as if my husband and I increasingly insular

There is much more to life than children, a lot more. You can design any life you want. Those with children don’t have it so great. It’s hard-work and exhausting. I always think it’s a misery loves company type scenario!

I think that there are two types of parents, the ones who become so obsessed with their DC that they have no time for or interest in anyone or anything else, and those who remain the same. Other people's DC are totally boring so I don't expect people to want to hear endlessly about mine (now grown up but I have three). Funnily enough, most of my closest friends are child-free.

Also I really struggle with the stuff about how time races by if you have children.
Do you think child free people are just sitting doing nothing all day.

Of course not. It's nothing to do with that. But the endless, manual and repetitive aspects of childrearing do give days both an intensity and monotony that causes them to blend. Plus there's the straight up sleep deprivation. There's a reason the expression "The days are long but the years are short" was coined about life with children.

I did plenty of stuff in the many years before I had them, but time didn't fly past in the same way.

@Rock4please

What about the lone parents who are holding down a job and raising a toddler alone? Who often have literally not one minute in the day that isn’t consumed by child, work, house work, life admin or (too little) sleep.

Honestly, some of us don’t have a minute to take a shit (I use this time to pay bills on my phone, add to the online shop, or check emails) let alone work on friendships.

There are myriad reasons parents may spend less time on their friendships - and many of them are circumstantial.

Skittlenommer

You’d almost be believable if you didn’t protest quite so much....

I was a great parent before I had a kid too OP.

I was later than my friendship group to have kids and we stopped seeing each other for various reasons - I still wanted to go to the pub all night, and they couldn't. I got promoted year after year, and they weren't because it's not easy in work when you've got kids. I didn't really understand their situations at all.

Now I've got a DC trying to meet up with anyone is a logistical nightmare - daytime you have to time with naps and meals, evenings I've got to wait for DH to get home to take over, weekends is the only time we get to spend as a family. I haven't got much to report back about my life either so conversations that would have lasted an hour, now take ten minutes. I'm behind on all cultural events, TV, film, fashion, news so unless you want to hear about everything my kid has done on any given day, I haven't got much to contribute!

Still think it’s pretty much just an excuse.

I will need to find myself something I can roll out when I basically can’t be arsed.

I know what you mean. I got so tired of a friends last minute cancellations due to issues with the kids that I just stopped inviting them. I radiate towards people without children or with grown up children now, and tend to unfollow social media when they become pregnant

Also I really struggle with the stuff about how time races by if you have children.
Do you think child free people are just sitting doing nothing all day

For context I had fertility issues for five years, worked long shifts in a care home (could be there for days if I worked sleep in cover too) and was caring solely for a disabled relative living independently at home before I had dd.

I think you’re taking the comments of tiredness the wrong way (as I would have done). It’s a different flavour of tiredness if that makes sense. Every day (and most of the night in lots of cases) is a treadmill of routines and small tasks alongside this sudden realisation of what total responsibility for another persons life and the subsequent scenarios you try to plan ahead for. Chuck in a few biological processes such as hormones and instinct that sets off every sense you own over the slightest snuggle and it’s knackering but you can’t quite turn off completely to recharge and opportunities to do that are few and far between if you’re lucky. There’s no going home at the end of the day, no weekends, no annual leave...and you know it so there’s not even something to keep you going. But you do because you have to, no quitting.

It gradually eases and of course everyone gets tired but I have genuinely never experienced the total physical and emotional exhaustion I’ve felt with the first couple of years of parenthood. Even now every moment I get to just sit with my only thoughts is so precious.

Haven't RTFT but I agree with the OP in many respects. I know quite a lot of people who are of the opinion that their nuclear family, their "family time" or even their children's activities trumps absolutely everything else. They are very tedious. I have DC so this is not bitterness or comparing childless life with life with children. It's as if the rest of the world is simply unimportant to them now and they've become very insular and rather boring.

I will pull back, and if people make the effort back then great if not then I'll move on with my life

You sound so like my mother (and SIL) OP, it's funny. She always wants people to 'make an effort'. With presents, dinners, life, meeting up, staying in touch. It's exhausting. If they make an effort with people then they resent when others don't. And they carry that resentment around. Me and the friends and family I really love spending time with are all 'oh crap it's been six months, have you got half a hour NOW for a coffee' people.

@JacquesHammer

You’d almost be believable if you didn’t protest quite so much....

I heavily promote a childfree life (now making a living doing this) because I believe a lot of women (and men) go into it under false pretences. I almost did. You do it because it’s what’s done or people tell you how wonderful it is without being honest about the realities. A lot of women have said they wish people had been honest and told them the truth and they would have reconsidered. This is what I advocate. It’s not a case of sour grapes although that’s a common response I get. Besides I love the AIBU and relationship topics here. I venture over when I’m not writing as it’s proper entertaining!

I have 2 DC and rarely see my friends who have kids. In a good year we might meet up twice. Mine are 3 and 6 and it's a nightmare meeting with friends with similarly aged DC as we never get a chance to converse. Since most of my friends DC fall into the same age bracket we only have a proper catch up if we meet in the evening without children and then it's the issue of juggling and arranging childcare (not an issue for me as DP never goes out so he is always on hand to stay in with the DC but many of my friends have husbands who work long hours, away from home etc) so it's all a bit of a faff.

OP, I wouldn't assume that your friends with kids are now all hanging out with other families and have abandoned you. The reality is often very different and many of them probably don't go out at all.

FWIW I love meeting up with my childfree friends. They always politely ask after my DC but it's a blessed relief to then switch subjects and spend an evening talking about non-related child stuff.