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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

366 replies

Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 13:59

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

OP posts:
OhTheRoses · 08/09/2019 19:35

Yes of course men have parenting easier than women. In the first six weeks at least which is being recognised as the fourth trimester.

Women have to deal with the storm of hormonez settling back to normal. The relentlessness and pain for some of breastfeeding. The healing of a body, even after an easy birth the bruising and settling back of an orifice the size of a lemon from being stretched to the size of a melon. For many healing from stitches, prolapses, piles or major surgery. Then there are the post birth infections such as mastitis or a riny fleck of retained placenta. Without all that it's an emotional rollercoaster notwithstanding the lack of sleep and exhaustion and expectation that mothers will smile, be magnificent and take it all in their stride because it's all normal. It's the most profound rite of passage. Sprinkle in some pnd and less than optimal circumstances: money, work, difficult partner having problems lems adjusting, demanding MIL, unsympathetic mother.

And after about two weeks men pick themselves up and go back to work. Listen to their music in their own space in the car or have a sit down on the train, perhaps streaming a video. Yes they are tired but they aren't physically injured or desperately mentally adjusting or responsible for the baby 24 hours a day, listening to the cries, unable to finish a thing.

I remember some of that and I had OK births, a fab partner and no worries.

Go figure.

Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 19:37

Yes of course men have parenting easier than women. In the first six weeks at least which is being recognised as the fourth trimester.

I already acknowledged this, obviously the physical and mental aspect takes toll on women for the first few months but after this it still seems to be majority woman.

OP posts:
Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 19:37

Maybe I'm delusional in thinking it can be any different

OP posts:
Userzzzzz · 08/09/2019 19:41

Life does change so much and little ones can be all consuming. If I’m honest, when I’ve got childcare I want to spend some time with my husband over friends. When I went back to work after mat leave, I missed my baby so wanted to come home to her etc. There are only so many hours in the day and when lots of your time is the hard stuff, quite often a lie in or just time to mooch with your family can be a higher priority. When I was pregnant a second time, I didn’t find as much time to meet up with friends with children on my toddler’s nursery days (on mat leave before baby cake) because while I had a few days of peace, I didn’t really fancy spending time with other people’s children. Priorities change.

HollyGoLoudly1 · 08/09/2019 19:42

She also has a childfree day one of the days the kid is in nursery to have some me time and feel like herself again

Please don't underestimate the difference this would make. This is a huge luxury and would change my ability to keep in touch with people massively. I honestly don't know a single person who has this set up. She's not wonder woman if she manages to text to meet for a coffee if she has an entire day to herself every week.

Cornettoninja · 08/09/2019 19:45

I never said that all parents have it one way or the other but there are definite groupings of experiences that have common factors. Common enough for it to be understandable to a lot of other women why a friend may be unintentionally neglected in the first couple of years of a child’s life.

I hope you do have the experience you’re trying to plan for, I really do, but it would be beneficial for you to really be able to empathise with other experiences without the implication that other women just aren’t ‘trying hard enough’. There is an unbelievable amount of pressure from all sides when you first have children and judging each other will mean people avoiding you. You’re going to meet a lot of other mums when you have children and chances are there will be mums whose experience just doesn’t match your planned one.

Cornettoninja · 08/09/2019 19:47

Oh and my scenario was more to illustrate the situations your friends may be in rather than a prediction of what lies ahead for you personally.

I’m still interested in your answer.

OhTheRoses · 08/09/2019 19:49

Hey do you really think all women just bounce back after the first few months? For some women the recovery process takes far longer and it's a long journey of physical healing and emotional adjustment. Many women grieve for the births they wanted and the perfect early days that never happened.

Esker · 08/09/2019 19:50

I think that it's too big a generalisation to make observations about people who have children / people who don't. With or without children, some friends are better/ more proactive / more responsive, and some people are more passive. Maybe having children can exaggerate those characteristics 🤷🏻‍♀️ But the fact that your friends didn't make a huge amount of effort pre kids seems to be a bit of a sign about how much they care.

It does sound tough and I feel for you. If the friends mean a lot to you, give them the benefit of the the doubt and keep trying? But also you lose nothing by trying to expand you social circle and meet new friends, right?

MaryPopppins · 08/09/2019 19:51

"They forget about the person they once were"

No. They don't.

They don't have a fucking minute in a day for the first year to be that person. Maybe we sit and cry because we miss being that person.

And that's fine. That's what we sign up to when we decide to become parents.

You're in for a very big shock. Unless of course you afford your DH to stop work or to employ a nanny. In which case carry on with your plans of not losing the person you were.

I think YABU if your friends kids are babies/toddlers and they probably don't want to see you because you don't want to see their children. Just then how they used to be. And those people don't exist anymore.

Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 19:52

I'm not judging them.

Sorry but I don't think becoming a mother means you can get away with shitty behaviour of not bothering with people and asking only your other friends with children how they are and not your childless ones (yes this regularly happens within the friendship circle I see it on FB and I am excluded)

There are things that happen in my life and I don't use it to justify shitty behaviour.

And you know what, if I'm in situation where I'm behaving shitty I acknowledge it and don't sweep it under the carpet.

It is shitty to be on the receiving end of a one sided friendship for long periods of time.

OP posts:
Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 19:53

@MaryPopppins no not true I invite them out with their children. I don't have a problem with the kids being present.

Hey there's still usually an excuse

OP posts:
Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 19:55

@Esker couldn't agree more you're right

OP posts:
Crystal87 · 08/09/2019 19:55

Having kids is very consuming, especially when you have a few. Everything is centred around the kids.
When I had one child I found it easy to meet up with my old friends, I would just bring my son with me. But now I have four kids aged from 10 to 2 and I can't just drop everything to go and meet someone socially. I've found that my friends before children drifted away from me and weren't interested anyway. No one wants four noisy kids tagging along to go for lunch.
I think as life progresses, priorities change and friends change. Being a parent, especially a SAHP can be lonely and isolating. I've found my friends now are also mums who I have more on common with and are more understanding of my life.

HollyGoLoudly1 · 08/09/2019 19:58

It is shitty to be on the receiving end of a one sided friendship for long periods of time.

I think a PP nailed it on the head about the children maybe exaggerating an already existing problem. I do think you're in for a shock when you have your first baby based on some of your comments, but I also think it's time to find other friends. They don't sound like they were great to you to begin with.

MagicKingdomDizzy · 08/09/2019 19:59

OP I would be interested to see if you still feel this way after you've had children yourself. It's very easy to make judgements from the outside looking in.

I had severe postnatal depression and psychosis after my son was born, and very nearly took both of our lives. Thank God I sought help and didn't.

I completely disappeared off the radar and stopped responding to messages, and to my friends I probably appeared flaky and selfish. In actuality I was struggling to keep my head above water and survive another day.

Having children changes your life for better and worse, and sometimes it's hard to grasp fully if you haven't had that experience yourself.

JealousOrFair · 08/09/2019 20:01

Motherhood is a 24/7 job. See it as, when at work, you do find the time to meet your work colleagues during lunch breaks for coffeee to discuss things about work which ends up clearing your mind so you can cope through the rest of the weak and bounce off ideas..

You can do that even when u don’t have time to answer your dads call about visiting him this weekend because unfortunately when mentally drained things that you usually enjoyed can become a burden if it doesn’t help you deconstruct what’s consuming your day.

However it does usually mean that the balance isn’t there, the person is overworked...

Ur friends aren’t behaving in a way healthy to them or their lives but they probably know that and wish they could. Motherhood to small kids is a mental struggle.

Don’t compare yourself to their meet ups with mum friends.

First of all the kids playing together usually is the highlight of why they are meeting and because they need to share the load of 24/7 attention and discuss the challenges they face and maybe have a small healthy competition and little boast about their kids bedtime to give themselves a pat on the back for taking that extra step forward.

It’s not mentally fulfilling. For someone with a very exciting career these conversations will probably be far from socially fulfilling.

I thought I was doing a good thing inviting my child free friend to a group of mum get together where the rest of us had our kids at soft play and we used to all be close. She seemed lonely and irritated, and sat by herself contemplating and seemed drained by the occasion. Not fulfilled..

The rest of us felt “relieved” that our kids got to release the energy and be mentally stimulated without us having to use our small energy reserves.

Truth is, most occasions, nothing about motherhood is about the mother and her needs.. even socializing is about the kids.

Especially in the first few years of their lives until they’re in school or so.

It’s really not personal to u but I understand the feeling of rejection of there is no reciprocation.

For me, I wait for the minute my son gives me a break so I can sleep or finish the laundry pile. I’m quite behind and never feel like I have time where I’m bored with nothing on my to do list.

I schedule time with my child free friends because it’s the healthy thing to do. But I feel depleted after,

Because it’s usuallt about me trying to minimize the fact that my attention is on my bored toddler because I feel guilty and boring to do that around her. I try to have conversations with her about things not to do with kids because it gets me back in touch with myself as an individual but it’s totally motivating to see myself in this way but after the meeting is over and practicality of the situation hits and Then friends asks me for updates and what have I done so far to achieve my dreams.. and what I’ve been up to the last two weeks... I feel a great sense of shame that I have failed myself. But because me and myself are not on my mind during any of the days I’m not meeting her because simply I’m fully consumed by responsibilities.

Motherhood has become such a huge task because before everyone shared it and the support was immense from society and relatives but now it’s just the parents..

So it’s quite intense more than biology was designed for.

Your instincts are telling u the right things about motherhood.. but reality is that nowadays motherhood has become just more than that..

It’s worth it and deeply fulfilling but requires huge compromises on many levels that leave you feeling unaccomplished..

I wouldn’t like to sit there with my child free friend listening about all her projects which she submitted which I’m happy for her about and then shamefully answering her question of “what have you done all week”, and I saw, wiper bums, made food, ran after toddler in park... slept when I could.. stayed up all night for teething.

While she looks at me blankly waiting for something she can acknowledge as an accomplishment Grin and me knowing how boring it all sounds.

The beauty of motherhood is sentimental. Something you feel when you are doing all this. The progresss is eternally slow. And milestones you feel are huge to u are small in the grand scheme of things.

But when I’m with mum friends I see great empathy on their face asking me whether my toddler managed to sleep well last night.. and I can feel accomplished by telling them he ate his broccoli for the first time.

Motherhood is beautiful.. really is... but even my DH is very bored when I’m telling him how my day went 😂😂 and I’m envious when he tells me about all the meetings he had and all the awards he won. If it’s not for my mum friends I would feel like my life is at a standstill.. which is often how it feels like to many new mums and mums of very young ones.

But that’s not to say friendship isn’t possible.. it is.

1- you could work out whether you are interested in her new life? By meeting her in playgrounds while she is playing with her child or have a group catch up with friends some are child free and some not , in a child friendly place ? Coffeee shops are incredibly boring for kids.

2- schedule some nice me time for you and the mum and let it be at her own time. Let her know you think she has been working really hard with her kids and it’s consuming her and so you want to encourage her to some me time.. so you can ask her when her DH takes the child on the weekend and you two go to a hair salon where she can finally get her haircut!? Or she can bring her child and you take turns in looking after him/her while you chat over pedicure?

Unfortunately you need to just accept mothers put their socializing needs at the very bottom and can only work out this part when they have their kids tended to. It’s not a choice. So planning events around that will be deeply appreciated by them until that phase is over.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/09/2019 20:02

there's still usually an excuse

Maybe I'm projecting but that phrase makes me think that you probably judge people whose children are loud, don't sleep. can't entertain themselves, are fussy eaters. I avoided judgmental friends, who I could cope with normally, like the plague when DD was small. Full of 'helpful' advice and cats' bum mouths when DD was being a PITA. Advising crying it out, giving a bottle and leaving her with other people generally. Made me want to cry and scream by turns.

couchparsnip · 08/09/2019 20:02

I found it much easier to keep up with friends that were interested in meeting my children. My life changed so much in that time and it was overwhelming. Having supportive friends that wanted to share the experience was amazing and those are the ones I made the effort to see.

Hey1256 · 08/09/2019 20:08

Motherhood has become such a huge task because before everyone shared it and the support was immense from society and relatives but now it’s just the parents..

@JealousOrFair so true

Parenting has changed, life has become more and more hectic yet there is less support for parents then there used to be I think. I totally agree,

On the flip side though quite often parents are offered support and turn it down (not everyone obviously!) but I have lots of friends that just won't leave their kids even with trusted grandparents.

I think I should return to this thread after I have kids because it's quite clear I just don't understand!

OP posts:
hairyturkey · 08/09/2019 20:11

Oh op, I am one of your friends... I constantly beat myself up about being like this with my wonderful friends (one who doesn't have kids yet, it's it you?).

I totally thought the same as you before I had kids. But the reality is that it's all-consuming. I may look ok on the outside but underneath the surface I'm paddling so hard just to get a meal on the table at the end of the day. I have been sleep deprived for 5 years. There's just no catching up at this stage. I hope when you have your kids you'll have loads of help and are able to be the mum you want to be, but don't take it personally.

MrsTerryPratchett · 08/09/2019 20:11

I think I should return to this thread after I have kids because it's quite clear I just don't understand!

I get a proper ball of stress in my stomach when I think of things I said to and about my parent friends now I have children. Fortunately they forgave me, I've apologized and they've laughed at me.

pooboobsleeprepeat · 08/09/2019 20:11

I have friends who have no interest in my children but want to meet me and chat on the phone for hours. So called bestfriends that can’t even stick a card in the post for dc’s birthdays.
I also have friends that love my children and would do anything for them (even if childless themselves).
Can you guess who I’d rather spend my time with?

SanguinePenguin · 08/09/2019 20:12

You have shit friends as do I. Totally get this Xxx you're lucky one has stayed .... FRIENDLY...!

pastabest · 08/09/2019 20:16

There was a period of about 6 months where I had two children under two and during that time I was barely functioning on about 4 hours sleep a night (in 40 minute blocks, not a nice solid 4 hour block).

I had a baby who screamed if I dared put her down, at a pitch that made it impossible to concentrate on doing anything more complicated than going for a wee or changing the toddlers nappy. Whilst DP would have been willing to look after her in the evening we all knew the outcome could just be hours of screaming until I got back, not exactly a good backdrop to an enjoyable catch up with friends.

I did nothing alone. I pooed with an audience. I showered with a toddler dancing round my legs and either holding a slippery newborn and trying to wash my hair with one hand or having 90 second showers with a screaming newborn lying safely somewhere nearby.

I did everything one handed or with a baby strapped to my front for months. Both of which slowed me down immensely. Trying to sweep a floor, unload a dishwasher or prepare a simple meal used up any energy I had between breastfeeds, nappy changes and entertaining a slightly bewildered and jealous toddler.

Because the baby wouldn't take a bottle I could only leave them for around an hour max in the early days, that includes travelling time. I prioritised the goodwill of family members willing to babysit on things like doctors appointments (for contraception Grin), dentists appointments and after about 6 months a hairdressers appointment because I was starting to frighten myself in the mirror.

Yes I technically had the time to text a friend but if I did I probably wouldn't have the time or the mental energy to maintain a text conversation. If I did get a few minutes with my phone while the toddler was napping and the baby was breastfeeding I would most likely be googling 'is it normal for a toddler to be trying to bite the baby' or browsing mumsnet to try and avoid falling asleep mid feed on the sofa at 2pm.

The 'baby' is 16 months old now and DP and I had our first evening out since the eldest was born. We had to eat at 6.45 and were back by 8.30 as we knew that the toddler wouldn't have gone to bed for granny and grandad.

I'm still the person I was before I had children. I've gone back to my career, I've got most of my old friends still around. But for a few years my brain was so fecked by lack of sleep, and meeting the needs of tiny people completely reliant on you for everything that there isn't a huge amount of room for much else.

The friends that I lost along the way were the ones that couldn't understand this.

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