AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

[Hey1256]

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

Ah this is a hard one.

Because yes the friendship was compromised. But I’m honest truth it wasn’t a choice.. it’s something most of us don’t
really want to be doing...

It’s necessitated by circumstances where you are obliged to put your child’s needs first.

So have meet ups where you

", I, I, me, me, me - no acknowledgement or awareness of how they’ve dropped people and picked up again solely at their own convenience. Those friendships get quietly but firmly left in the long grass."

But aren't the ones without children doing essentially the same thing? me me me why don't you pay attention to me.

Friendships change and alter and shift. If you are pissed off and resentful then...don't be friends with that person?

I don't have any expectations of my friends. It's easier that way.

*Once again I reiterate - breastfeeding usually stops after six months

Labour recovery same (disclaimer ; not ALL women, most)

And maternity leave stops after 12 months.

People still use the kids as an excuse until they're teenagers.

Please explain.*

Hehe. This sounds like something I would have written pre kids.

Still breastfeeding an over 18 month old.

Would have gone back after 12 months but, you know, money...

Labour recovery, hmm, well major surgery so pretty much felt better after 12 months.

And I think people want/need to be with their kids until teenage years in general.

But aren't the ones without children doing essentially the same thing?

I can’t speak for others but I’m not. I just expect a tiny tiny bit of reciprocal effort or at the very least an acknowledgement - can you see the difference between the two examples I’ve given?

bright

But examples are meaningless because everyone is different.

I think people need to let go a little more. I've been dropped by friends, I've dropped friends. That's life. No need to get pissed off or overthink it.

Of course it hurts sometimes but people change, friendships change.

Move on. Find new friends. It's not that big a thing.

It's not that big a thing.

That’s incredibly rude and patronising. Maybe it’s not a big deal to you but I think it’s fairly clear from this thread that to some it IS a big deal to watch all your friends disappear. Maybe it’ll happen to you one day and I hope you encounter more compassion from others that you show here.

It's really not about you OP.

You can't realistically imagine how life and priorities change when you become PG and have DC, and how your life will be impacted and change.

I can't be doing with super needy friends - I use up all my "giving" with the kids. I cherish and keep friendships that are fun, mutually supportive. I have plenty of friendships with people who don't have kids and they are great. I have friendships with people who do have DC. Some only want to do things or talk about the DC - these relationships can get pretty tiresome to me and I do have kids.

I have many friends and I am not in contact with any of them that regularly - we all have full busy lives & we understand that. I still can call on friends if I need them, need some support and they can do the same for me. I can also call and say "hey I've got X time - would love to see you, what can we do?". They know they aren't the centre of my world and that is fine & healthy.

I have maintained friendships for decades across vast geographical divides so I can assure you many consider me to be a worthwhile friend. I moved to a place I know no one 18 months ago and I am developing some nice new friendships - I can do all of this without being constantly in touch with any of these people.

My friendships enrich my life - my job, my kids, all the daily grind that goes with that is enough of a drain on me. I'm not going to be encouraging any friendship where the person is needy and has all these rules about how I must be in order to be a worthy friend. Its a great filter.

But it's not about being "constantly in touch" or being "needy". The OP is talking about virtually being ghosted by people she thought she was genuinely close to as soon as they have children. She is also talking about people who claim to have no time to "fit her in", but then pop up on Facebook on spa weekends with "ante natal girls" (to use my example).

Also You can't realistically imagine how life and priorities change when you become PG and have DC, and how your life will be impacted and change. I think some of us can imagine - that's why I've chosen not to have DC. It's just that I feel a bit sad about having to decide against DC because I want to remain in an equal relationship with my husband, and don't want to be catapulted back to a 1950s existence while he gets to "have it all", even though it's 2019. A world in which the changes and priorities were shared equally would certainly be preferable.

The OP says she was already doing 80% of the chasing - these weren't close friendships before children. Additionally in the OP's case she expects babies past 6 months old to be left elsewhere if parent friend is to meet her, even for a coffee, and expects mothers to be back to their pre pregnancy self by 6 months post partum. It's hardly surprising that those friendships have fallen by the wayside, given they were one sided in the first place.

and don't want to be catapulted back to a 1950s existence while he gets to "have it all", even though it's 2019. A world in which the changes and priorities were shared equally would certainly be preferable

This is so true. The whole equality argument seems to have come so far but in actual fact there are still so many inequalities between men and women particularly when it comes to parenting.

Its archaic, and so many still seem to support this ideology and be ok with it.

For the record I am not talking about men that do a runner, before anyone takes offence.

I am talking about friends of mine that have had husbands offer to be the stay at home dad and they earn less only than the woman but the woman wont allow it, as an example. Or the ones where it was never even discussion just assumption the woman will do it post 12 months baby she is usually always the one to go part time without discussion.

I am talking about friends of mine that have had husbands offer to be the stay at home dad and they earn less only than the woman but the woman wont allow it, as an example. Or the ones where it was never even discussion just assumption the woman will do it post 12 months baby she is usually always the one to go part time without discussion.

That would be me OP.

You have no right to judge a friend who “chose” that. It’s not 1950s for a woman to make that choice. Because it’s a choice.

You are scrutinizing other people’s parenting decisions just because you are protesting that they need to fit you in and not make their kids their priority..

That’s not right and pretty needy

I understand how what I said came across as judgemental and I am sorry for that. I think the thread is just highlighting I am a little bitter and sad at lots of things for a variety of reasons.

I didn't mean to judge, but I am allowed to express an opinion and I do think it is 1950's. It is not modern. A modern approach would be 50/50 parenting IMO. An opinion, not a judgement. perhaps an unrealistic one but one can hope. Without hope, there will never be change.

Tbh it’s pretty clear from your posts that you are extremely judgemental of how people parent. That’s the kind of friend that gets dropped when people have kids. I had fertility problems for years and still managed to stay friends with people as they had kids and I’ve managed to stay friends with childfree people who have been reasonable and understanding now I have kids. Someone who wanted me to leave my 6 month old at home because I should have stopped breastfeeding by then. Umm, no. That wouldn’t work for me. You need to look at your own assumptions and behaviour.

Move on. Find new friends. It's not that big a thing.

It is though, when you’ve known your friends for decades and you’ve been excluded because you have a reproductive system that’s not fit for purpose.

But why do you feel such a need to express your opinion at other people’s parenting choices.... when the issue you are facing is that you feel your friend isn’t doing enough to value your friendship?

Why are you seeing the two as relevant? Aren’t you able to understand that her perception of what’s important might be different to yours and that this shouldn’t devalue her as a friend ?

I’m not talking about the friend that ghosted you. Genuinely, because that’s just bad friendship.

But you are facing this with many and making s generic statement about motherhood and mothers. Almost seeing motherhood and people’s choices on parenting as an obstacle to your friendship.

What does friendship mean to you? Is it about company? Or is it more sentimental?

To me it’s sentimental. I could not see someone for years and still value the friendship. I wouldn’t ignore them and I wouldn’t ignore big events in their lives but I might be goinf through stages in life when being their company isn’t the top of my list.

Wouldn’t drop them as friends though.

That’s all very nice but back in the real world doesn’t work certainly not in our profession. There was a good article about it in the NY times. Employers now so demanding the model that many people fall into is one person going for it at work and the other giving up for a few years while kids small. That was the conclusion we drew too. Both stepping back and going part time have worked (corporate law).

"I am talking about friends of mine that have had husbands offer to be the stay at home dad and they earn less only than the woman but the woman wont allow it, as an example. "

Some women, like me, have a baby and want to stay at home. You might find you feel the same way if you have a baby. It's not nice to judge other women for making this choice any more than it's nice to judge working mums.

OP, I think you've veered quite far from the original thread!

I wonder if your friends know how much you judge them and that's another reason they have pulled away from them?

*they have pulled away from you.

I wonder if your friends know how much you judge them and that's another reason they have pulled away from them?

Yes I’m a well meaning way op, I think being too opinionated about parenting before you know the struggles yourself might be a factor in why they pull away.

It’s easy to be theoretical about parenting before going into it yourself and I feel you reallt will cringe reading this back to yourself when you become a mother.

I worry your expectations are too idealistic and I would think that’s also a factor why many mums end up not coping emotionally and mentally with the shock of it all.

So a good place to start would be to listen to mothers about what they’re really trying to say and not project your own theories

Part of respecting motherhood is acknowledging that it’s a “role”... just like some professions..

You do learn on the job. And so someone who has been a mother for a while does have more experience than someone who hasn’t.. there isn’t badges of honour or rewards or milestones that mothers go through to prove theyre doing well at being mothers and so you can’t decide whose style is working better than who.,,

But what you can be sure about is that their experience taught them something which you have no clue about...

Unless you have fostered or adopted , which is another journey in motherhood but has most things in common to do with parenting then you reallt don’t have the experience to formulate a valid opinion,

You are entitled to think what you wish, but going to a Periatric surgeon challenging his approach and acting like you know better, without evidence or facts... is slightly arrogant.

His opinion trumps yours unless yours.. until you have some evidence for what you are saying and then it’s worth a discussion.

Here is the hierarchy:
Personal opinion
Trial and error experimentation
Facts and evidence backed by experts

But an opinion of an inexperienced person against someone who has been through the trial and error, in a patronising manner is really quite arrogant. And not usually received well.

I find that a lot of my childfree friends feel they want to contribute to my parenting and they share their theoretical tips. I usually do enjoy the discussion here and there..

But when they start insisting that I’m doing it all wrong and they know better, that’s when I usually find them draining and pull away. Because that’s a level of ignorance that won’t be resolved by a discussion and I wouldn’t want to hang around them feeling judged based on standards they pulled out of their magic dreams.

We tend to misunderstand motherhood as a society. We tend to not know how much in involves and how it’s a different journey for everyone, for every mother and every child and every family.

Forcing everyone to fit into one theory is usually the most thing mother dread and dislike.. strippping away their right to be individuals and deal with their own parenting decisions and trust their own instincts and not just have rules dictated is what motherhood is about..

And denying a mother her own opinions on her own lives, is one of the reasons why many mothers feel their role is under appreciated. It’s coming from a place of superiority.. as if her experience and journey and instincts mean nothing compared to your judgement..

It’s really not respectful of her as an individual.

It is like a mummy's club and it does exclude people who haven't chosen or been able to have children and every excuse that is used is designed to make us feel more and more like shit and more and more excluded from society.

And there lies the crux of the matter. No matter how many would say “this is what it’s like, these are my intentions, this is what’s happening in my life, this is why friendships fall away” unless folk agree that people who become parents are exclusive, purposely make non-parents feel like shit they’re making excuses to further exclude.

In my experience there were things I didn’t understand before becoming a parent, it’s not that I didn’t have empathy or see my friends who has children, I just didn’t have that experience.

I didn’t know what it was to be wholly responsible for the well-being of another person, didn’t know the emotional demands that would be made of me, I didn’t know that my plans would change on a moments notice and the extent to which my priorities would change. I also didn’t know how much I would need the support of people who were on a similar path to me, and how much I would need those long standing friendships that remind me of who I am.

It’s not that motherhood is an exclusive club - it’s that it’s difficult to know how you’ll respond to the many additional demands made on you, difficult to predict how much time you’ll have for yourself, difficult to remember to carve out that time for others, to be as emotionally, psychologically available to friends as you were before. Having children has changed me, changed the way my life works - I don’t expect my friends to fully understand that, but I do hope they’ll be able to adjust their expectations of me and what I can offer them at the moment, in the same way as I adjust my expectations of them when their life changes in whatever way.

The OP has pretty rubbish friends before they became parents, from her own description. Throwing children into the mix was never going to improve that.

I have a few friends without kids who try to offer opinions on my parenting and I must say that it does make me think less of them because it makes them seem like they completely lack the self awareness to realise, like a PP said, that they just don't have the life experience to offer that opinion.

unless folk agree that people who become parents are exclusive, purposely make non-parents feel like shit they’re making excuses to further exclude.

But that’s a generalization and I’m definately not like that!!! I did try my best but did result in finding some interactions with childfree friends tedious if they weren’t ready to adjust expectations

It’s just that I feel a bit sad about having to decide against DC because I want to remain in an equal relationship with my husband, and don't want to be catapulted back to a 1950s existence

But those aren’t your only choice, you can continue to have an equal relationship and parent, I do with my husband. The reality is even with us both pulling our weight, sharing time at home with sick kids, having equal time away from home, both working a similar amount there are still times I need to pull back, focus on what’s happening at home, there are still times I need to be off work with a sick child or cancel plans with friends. As does he.

My husband would be horrified and amused in equal measure at the idea of me reverting to being a 1950s parody of a wife, and it’s pretty narrow minded and disrespectful of you suggest that’s true of women who decide to have children.

If you think those are your two choices, it says more about your expectations of your own relationship than the reality of being a mum.