AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

[Hey1256]

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

Though I'm determined to still be a person and not just a parent.

Everyone's a perfect parent before they have children. Maybe you'll have a biddable child who sleeps and you'll remain perfect.

Mine didn't sleep more than two hours in a row for two years. Zero family support and undiagnosed SEN. So yes, sometimes 9 words in a text was too much. Thankfully my friends are great... and time, distance and being a bit shit doesn't affect that.

There are some people who expect 'an effort' and that's the terms of their friendship. I've lost them. The people I love I make an effort but it's random and patchy! But I don't care if they're a bit shit either. One friend took TWO YEARS and a FB to his wife to get back to me. Turned out he's been really struggling. Our friendship is unaffected.

When all my friends started to have kids, we naturally drifted apart (as I don't have any). Just didn't have much in common any more. And that's the way it's stayed. Most of my friends are childfree too (not through choice, I should add, so please don't judge!). I've made new friends - you will too. Some friends are not for life. But it's not the end of the world, as long as you are open to meeting new people. Good luck!

I can relate to this...

So I had my baby and kept trying to stay in touch with my friends without kids because I enjoyed their friendship.

But after I became a mum my life changed immensely... and my biggest focus was my kids...

While I was able to understand their career motivations and freedom to do things, it grated on me slightly when I got asked “so what’s your plans for the future, are you hoping to progress with your career? Why don’t you do this project? Why don’t you take this hobby...”

It was almost like they’re trying to rescue the old me from drowning into motherhood but in the process I was feeling so inadequate as a human being around them because I felt I had no time or energy to fulfill my own ambitions for a while.

They were not that keen to talk or understand how much effort goes into raising a child and how sleepless I am and how tired.

I still made the effort and appreciated the friendship. But it was a lot of pressure trying to live up to the old me, and see that in their eyes my new role as a mother and sacrifices I’m making to do that role was not exciting or interesting. It confirmed my own struggles...

It’s kind of easier to stick around other mums who know exactly what it’s like to put your life on hold for a while. And appreciate the kids that are making that stage of your life worth it, despite being hard !

So while I love love my friends without kids, I find many of them don’t really understand my new circumstances... and don’t appreciate that I’m at a whole new stage of my life and what’s very important to me might not be important to them and vice versa.

Something like that

YANBU OP, sorry to hear this. I think it really depends on the person as a friend and as a parent to be honest. I've been fortunate in that I've been able to maintain all of the friendships with my close friends with us being flexible both ways. Rather than going out all of the time quite often they are happy to come over when baby is asleep and have a board game night or whatever, and then sometimes I go out alone as I have a great support network and me and baby feel comfortable doing so; and other times I take them with me and they help out. It's a balance, but not everyone is as forunate. Some do become consumed for a variety of reasons (which sounds like my worst nightmare), and others are struggling with things perhaps they don't feel comfortable sharing. It sounds like you are happy to work around them though so even a text wouldn't go amiss. I enjoy talking about stuff other than babies so it works well for us.

I was like you, couldn’t understand how hard it is to have a child but it truly is so difficult. I have a 1 year old and I try my best to have decent friendships, but I’m honestly so tired a lot of the time and the time I get to myself I usually want to be on my own because I’m so touched out.

It's just a hard and sad situation (sometimes) to keep friendships between child and childfree people is the bottom line.

Also to add the only time they’re interested in my kids is when they wanna tell me theoretical things about what they think would be a better way to handle them and so on. So I naturally avoid the topic too!!

It’s well intentioned.. but theoretical. And because they have not even tried it themselves it again drains my confidence. They under estimate what having kids mean!!!!

My friend told me “ I’ll tell my mum to advise you on how to make your baby fatter, he needs more nutrition”.. which made me feel sad because my child is healthy but has a medical condition which she isn’t clued up on..

I feel judged even though she doesn’t mean it at all.. I used to under estimate parenting too, until I became one. I used to think it’s easier to handle tantrums, all the child needs is love !

The mother-child bond is very very hard to imagine. It’s complex and draining but also very very rewarding.

The leaving them with the dad issue, ime it might not happen because of any combo of the following;

Dad's not available, dad is crap (have a look on here at the no of useless dad's), that time out will require a reciprocal time out that mum may not be super happy at the prospect of, child may not settle for dad as easily/at all because mum main carer, there's a lot of scope for competitive tiredness and resentment and strain the early years .. arranging time out in a good natured mannered might not be easy, it's just another source of stress/potential argument, yes, you do get mum guilt - one if those funny little penguin books described maternal live as Stockholm syndrome and it's true, you get so used to thinking about and looking after this little person/appendage 24-7 that you can feel guilty and uncomfortable and like something's missing if you're at liberty, separated from them ... Also on top in f all this you are so fkg knackered and have no headspace for anything so even the prospect of planning/organising something seems like huge hassle (and that's just normal.cicrumstances, not even when they're sick with minor illnesses - which they often seen to be early on).

*maternal love

Some of my friends had babies before me, we grew apart due to different interests and their restrictions due to small babies etc , some friendships recovered, some didn't .
When i had ds I struggled for a couple of years with pnd and relationship problems . I didn't want to see my child free friends with their happy care free lives , lie ins and slim bodies ! Some stuck by me, some didn't. I've made " mum " friends and reconnected with old friends now that I'm back on an even keel.
Life throws all sorts of obstacles in the way , some friendships will make it through and some won't.

I think a mums confidence in herself as an individual with aspiration plays a huge role in whether she can maintain friendships with those who are childfree. And whether she made sacrifices willingly or was forced by circumstances.

I’d say your friend is struggling

I was determined to be a parent who still had a life and her own identity. I laugh at that now. Pre-child me had no idea how all-consuming parenthood would be. I literally had no headspace or physical time left for anyone other than my family. Balancing work, a baby, sleep deprivation, poor mental health, a marriage hanging on by a thread and then secondary infertility left me with nothing left to give to anyone else.
Maybe these people aren’t being selfish, maybe there’s just nothing left to give.
Maybe they don’t reply to messages as that will lead to another, then another and then requests to meet up that they’ll have to turn down. Babies tip your world upside down.
It changed me as a person massively. It changed my relationships and friendships. The friendships that have stood the test of time we’re with those who understood; who were patient and didn’t expect anything from me. Those who knew that it wasn’t that I didn’t care about them but that I was flat out exhausted.

OP YANBU and it's not just you- I have had this with a few friends who now arrange meet ups around their children (absolutely fine) and don't invite me, I assume, because they (wrongly) think I won't be interested in e.g. going to the park for the afternoon. They seem to think we should only meet at "adults" events, but in practice those are few and far between with young children and it also means they see parent friends far more regularly than they see us, which in turn weakens the friendship and means we aren't automatically thought of when people are planning.

We're not having children, for a number of reasons, and I do wonder if I'm facing a very lonely future.

@CountFosco is this because you didn't have much support or other people to leave the baby with and get some 'me time' or because you didn't want to have any me time?

We didn't have any support, my parents were a plane flight away and my Dad was dying when the DC were small and the PILs were 'only' 3-4 hours away but FIL was already very frail so not able to help. Still don't really so, e.g. our eldest is nearly 12 and we've had 1 night away from them as a couple.

We're not having children, for a number of reasons, and I do wonder if I'm facing a very lonely future.

I was on the fence about kids for a long while, because of how draining people tell you it is etc etc.

I have decided to do it fairly recently but I totally understand where you are coming from. If it turns out I don't have kids for whatever reason or change my mind again or break up with my DH then I feel exactly the same.

People say find new friends. Where are 35 plus childfree women at? Few and far between. Perhaps in big cities like London or New York it's more common but I couldn't name more than one or two that I know.

It's a rarity and I don't really want a friendship circle of twenty somethings when I'm in my forties and fifties.

Another two sided factor is just that when you socialise with other parents of babies/little kids, you get feedback/comparison/advice/empathy in a way that you usually can't with someone who has no kids (unless they look after kids a lot) ... And also you don't feel like you boring them/excluding them convo in the way you feel you do with someone with no kids.

Obviously you can take a break from talking about kid stuff and talk about other things, but sometimes the issue that is foremost in your mind/concerns is kid related and you can get answers or even just comparisons & reassurance from other parents do the contact is very useful: sounds mercenary but you obviously have less free time and less social time with small children.

I went on a sort of night out with three other women, one child free, the others with kids 1-6 yes .. no matter how hard we tried we kept slipping back to talking about children and all the trials, tribulations, issues, possible solutions, and I was aware the poor girl was probably bored shirtless. Several times I pointedly tried to change the subject and include her and sooner f later it went back to kids .... unfortunately it's often human nature to gravivate towards the ppl who have most in common with you at a time.

And I’m usually one to go out of my way to stress the importance’s to stay in touch with my old self.

When I meet my childfree friends it’s usullt a reminder of how I’m failing at that,

I don’t think motherhood in general is well understood and appreciated in society. But it does consume u and your whole life

@JealousOrFair I think you nailed it by saying motherhood is not very well understood by society.

I think it's part of life's merry go round op. I called pff an engagement at nearly 28 as many of my friends from that time marroed and started families. We were out of kilter and I had to pick myself up and dust myself down. Quickly met dh and married him after 2.5 years. His friends were behind the curve of my friends (he's a couple of years younger) and their wives were going through similar stuff. Naturally I became closer to them and my friends who were pg, having babies at the same time. My bf from school had her first 10 years previously and my bf from single London days about 6 years previously and there was a disconnect there.

Add in the constant breastfeeding, ill babies, miscarriages you may know nothing of and the disconnect sets in. Add a dash of trying to fit a quart into a pint pot time wise between feeds, hv's, hopsital apts, totally sleepless nights and actually 9 taps on a screen do becpme insurmountable, especially when your mother and MIL need regular updates and getting out of the house with a sick baby is challenging. It's quite natural to become friends with the mum around the corner after you bumped prams at the drs and to start helping each other out. You dash out to get her a pint of milk or whizz to hers when she has an emergency and there's little time to fit in other stuff.

Happily op my bfs and I who had babies at different times drifted back together as dc grew up. I have besties who had dc at the same time and others who have drifted as jobs, careers, dh's have taken us in different directions. Add in the fact also that sometimes husbands don't gel and it's even more complex.

I also remember my mother ringing me and saying I'd call back when I'd fed the baby. Once I'd fed the baby, the toddler fell over and needed attention, then it was his lunchtime. Then the baby needed feeding again, put baby down to nap and toddler needed some one on one time. Then I had a dr's apt and it was feeding time and tea time and bath time and story/bed time. Then my mother called back and I tried to explain (I was an only child) and she told me I was thoughtless and inconsiderate and needed to get myself organised.

So unfortunately op, the priorities change. It isn't you but you need to move on.

@JealousOrFair how is society misunderstanding of motherhood? Genuinely curious to know.

I think that people deal with motherhood in different ways and as someone else put it earlier I can see how it feels like a bus has hit and not everyone copes with it in the same way others do, perhaps that also has an impact.

I also think what you see in the glossy magazines doesn't help. I suppose the Kate Middleton and Meghan Markle of the world can leave their babies after a week as they have all the money to buy a support network but in reality the average person doesn't have access to this.

So I guess motherhood in the 'real world' isn't depicted well by society at all and perhaps why so many find it a shock to the system?

The interaction becomes harder sometimes when one of you has a child and the other doesn't. The one with children feels like they are crap company because the child(ren) are being hard work, or you can't listen properly because you're trying to mind your children at the same time as holding a conversation. Conversely, the person without children feels ignored and like the other person isn't that interested in them.

We feel boring because we don't have as many interesting anecdotes that aren't about children.

When I had children, my social life became much more family focused. Grandparents want to see the DCs regularly so that takes up free time.

You're often beholden to nap times, as these can determine whether the child will sleep well at night, so parents don't like to fuck with naps. This can mean they avoid long drives where the child might sleep at the wrong time.

You favour friends with similar aged children because they have houses with toys and children who will distract eachother so that you can have an adult conversation.

I've reconnected with friends now that we both have children. We understand eachother more. I have a certain friend that I will only see when I don't have DS with me because I know that he has no interest whatsoever.

I also meant to say that when you do get child free time, which might not be often, a lot of people choose to spend that as a couple as it can be important for your relationship to try and get dressed up a bit and not just veg in front of netflix.

There's nothing more hilarious than someone who doesn't have children yet but is absolutely confident that when they do, they won't be like most other parents.

Of course women are obsessed with their new babies. It's a biological necessity that they be so, because that's the kind of attention babies and small children need. Leaving them is not as easy as "the dad can look after them", for all sorts of reasons, even if you aren't breastfeeding.

I still love my friends who don't have children and care about their lives. But the bandwidth simply isn't there for more than a very occasional check-in and even more occasional meet-up, even now my youngest is 18mo. Work, children and marriage are a constant process of triage and juggling; which of the three is most acutely in need right now? When I get my rare opportunities to have time not devoted to any of those three, like PP, what I mostly want is to be left the fuck alone, with nobody touching me or making demands on me. I do my best to keep up with the events of childfree friends' lives but I do not have the time or resources to provide the kind of support I might have considered normal pre-kids.

Attempts to combine friends with children and friends without have not ended well, tbh. Childfree friends have not enjoyed lunches that feature toddlers and the kids get jealous and respond badly to not having mummy's attention unless there are other kids there for them to play with.

I know this stage will end; my oldest is nearly 5 and already much less intensive. If childfree friends can be patient, I'll be back to a similar if not identical self in time. But the early years of childrearing are basically like moving through fog with lead weights tied to you. You desperately need friends with children for moral support, empathy, and reassurance and the bulk of your socialising energy tends to go there out of sheer survival.

I also wouldn't worry too much about the 40s and 50s; even those with children are mostly back to normal by then as their kids are older and there's no barrier to childfree/childhaving socialising.

How many people are we talking? You make it sound like quite a lot and without wanting to sound like a bitch sometimes we have to look at our own behaviour if we are the common denominator.

Tbh I don’t really understand why you would be happy to make the effort before they had babies but once they’ve had them feel it’s become one-sided. I agree you shouldn’t be doing all the running around but it’s probably a period people do need a bit of slack cut on heir behalf. If you’ve already set the expectation within a friendship that you are the ‘doer’ then it’s not surprising friendships fall to the wayside when things are difficult.

On your point of how hard is it to text ‘how are you?’. Actually it’s quite hard sometimes (kids or not) when you’re busy/exhausted/emotionally weary because it’s not just a how are you is it? You’re initiating a conversation and personally I don’t do that unless I have the headspace to give it proper attention.

I have a 3 yr old and a 7 week old. I get between 4 to 5 hours sleep a night, divided up into 3 blocks and I have to bedshare with the tiny one so it’s not a deep sleep. I used to work 60+ hours a week and thought I knew tired. It’s nothing like what I feel like now.

Being pregnant puts the same strain on your body was constantly running a marathon for 9 months. It takes 2 yrs to recover from pregnancy. Children are not biological expected to reliably sleep through the night to 7 years old. Children take up so much time and energy. It’s not that you are not important it’s that having young children means you have to be in survival mode and children’s needs come before everyone’s want.