AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

[Hey1256]

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

OP, I totally get everything you have written.

I'm 38 and over the past 10 years, I'd say I've "lost" around 80% of my friends to motherhood. I like to think I'm a reasonably considerate person and I'm certainly not the sort of friend that would expect nights out clubbing, weekends away, etc. with parents of a small child. I tried so hard to maintain friendships, once driving 4 hours to visit a friend for the weekend (albeit staying in a hotel, so as not to inconvenience her), only to be told I could be slotted in on day XX from 2-4pm in the afternoon because "it would need to fit in with nap times". Or the friend that couldn't possibly leave her two year old (with his dad!) for a few hours in the evening to have dinner with me (because she already feels soooo guilty about working) but then went on a spa weekend away with her "ante-natal girls". Over time, as in your case, the text messages become less and less frequent and arrangements are cancelled last minute EVERY SINGLE TIME, so you just give up.

The most frustrating aspect for me is that it only ever seems to happen to women. DH has a big group of friends including single guys, married men and fathers, and it doesn't affect the dynamic of their friendship at all. He's never been told that he "has no idea" how difficult and draining and awful fatherhood is and he's never been excluded from conversations because "we're going to have some daddy chat today - you'd just be bored".

I do wonder if women just tend to look for friends who mirror their own life circumstances/confirm their own life choices, rather than being interested in their friends as individuals. It doesn't make sense to me that after so many years of close friendship, you can be considered so replaceable and that all of a sudden, "motherhood" is the most important criterion for friendship. It definitely makes you feel like there is this bigger club of "motherhood" that you're not part of, and nobody wants to let you in either. Very divisive, and very sad for a society that is supposed to be increasingly equal.

Most of my friends now are mid-20s or 45+, and I expect it will stay like that for some time to come. At least I have my DH to socialise with as well - I think this problem hits single ladies in their mid-30s the most.

Incidentally, I'm 99.9% sure I'll remain childfree by choice and threads like these just cement that decision.

@shoesandwine - brilliant post.

I am still quite depressed by the whole thing.

@shoesandwine I can identify with so much of your post.

I absolutely agree about the gender split - the male half of now-bechilded couples still manage to have grown-up conversations, send/reply to text messages and socialise (even if it's just a very quick coffee once in a blue moon). It's not uncommon to find that the female half of the same couple is the one who forgets to ask how I am, doesn't have any conversation beyond the children, and prefers to socialise with other mothers and/or prioritises those who are good with her kids.

That last one is a real kicker by the way - it's bad enough finding that your friends are drifting away because they don't have time but to find yourself further penalised in the friend stakes because you're not very good with kids? FFS.

You're the one who always instigates meetups, always the one that travels to them bearing coffees and cakes, always the one who listens to talk about weaning/playgroups/teething, always the one who remembers the childrens' birthdays when yours was forgotten, always the one who makes the effort, always the one to say "Whenever is convenient to you", only to find that they fade away anyway as the parent friends take priority.

Then they turn round in 5/10 years time and wonder why you aren't there any more.

I would add that it doesn't have to be depressing. I've found new friends who are a mix of the child-free and those who have much older children.

So true, it annoys the hell out of me how so many men just get off the hook so much and their lives return to normal pretty much a few weeks after women give birth to their child.

I've never heard a guy say their kids 'consume their whole lives'. Ever.

bright so men don't step up, leave the woman to do everything, and somehow it's still the woman who gets the blame for not having time and energy for her friends.

Right.

@LiveInAHidingPlace who said that? You've most definitely misinterpreted some posts.

Nope it's definitely the men's fault for not stepping up. And a women's bad for allowing it (certainly when it's in a relationship anyway. Obviously we can't stop men doing the disappearing act)

Definitely a woman's fault if/when she decides to ignore her friends after having kids, yes. I said it.

Hey it is definately being implied that men are somehow socially superior to women because they’re able to keep friendships after becoming parents.

Theoretically parenting SHOULD be 50/50. But childbirth, pregnancy, breastfeeding and whatever comes with them in terms of mental health and physical health and the lack of choice in being the primary carer/only carer, is a complete different story.

A breastfeeding mum can’t split her nights 50/50 for example.

Maternity leave isn’t taken by the dad and so his career and identity didn’t suffer..

I resented my DH snoring while I could hardly Close my eyes.

I resented how he was getting one award after the other where the only accomplishment I had was getting through a poonami...

I resented how he had the energy and ability to go out with his friends and have nothing about his social life change while I was struggling to have s shower and not look like a mess and hardly wanted to look at myself in the mirror some days let alone go out and embarrass myself with friends who knew me as glamorous... and will just comment on how tired I look..

I resented it all... but it wasn’t his fault.. it was a sacrifice I was making for my child... and our family..

And my child brought so much joy to my world and was worth it..

But the “change in identity” is a bit optional for a Dad, applauded, and seen as heroic.

For a mum, it’s completely out of necesssity.. because no one else can do it.. absolutely

Once again I reiterate - breastfeeding usually stops after six months

Labour recovery same (disclaimer ; not ALL women, most)

And maternity leave stops after 12 months.

People still use the kids as an excuse until they're teenagers.

Please explain

Will reply tomorrow after I get through my bad mood because I know I have night wakings to go through and just when I managed to start my me time to wind down I get my DH trying to get some attention and is sat next to me wondering why I haven’t finished what I said I will finish today and I know there is no proper sleep anywhere in sight and wants to have conversations with me while all I want is to be left alone so I can feel whole again.

Oh yeh and I’m breastfeeding my 19 months old still. On demand.

Thinking I need to sleep now so I can wake up early tomorrow when my toddler wakes up hungry for breakfast and wanting me to be actively playing with him.. so can’t be a zombie..

But at the same time I stink and neee to change into nice pjs.. I haven’t managed to finish the laundry pile and I still have things that need doing ASAP and so my mind I rushing trying to figure out what’s the plan.

So anyway... have a good night.

You and my DH, who thinks he has done a wonderful job this weekend for taking DH out to meet his friends up, and given me time for myself ... which I spent trying to catch up on my basic human need- sleep that is. Now he thinks we are even and I can function normal again.

He can continue to do his hobbies and meet up with friends because he has done his “fair share”.

Okay then. Good night y’all.

And why the raised eyebrows ? are you here to be informed about someone else’s journey or have you convinced yourself that mothers don’t know about motherhood more than childfree people and so you don’t need to listen to when mothers are expressing their feelings about THEIR journey??

I think your perspective will change when you become a mother. And you might get hurt about the cynical raised eye brows expecting you to defend your exaggerated drama.

hey uh you just said directly it's the woman's fault so don't blame me for misinterpreting.

If the man sits on his arse doing nothing, wtaf is the woman supposed to do? You can't force someone to wash the dishes.

Once you have children, it is much harder to leave a shit relationship.

And in such times, you need your friends to be understanding, not to be whiny babies about not having time to meet.

Not my personal experience, my husband is an angel, but I can understand how it happens.

OP I'd say your friends just don't want to spend time with you and the kids are a good excuse.

You're not a priority to them. That's hurtful but that's how it sounds.

I guess I'm down about this realisation.

Don't let it get you down OP. I think for me the key to friendship happiness is being realistic. There are different types of friends. Some are the type that enjoy hanging out and make it happen. Some are the type that enjoy hanging out, but only if they have literally nothing else to do (including reality TV on catch up, looking at their phone) and can be bothered on the day. We all wish our friends were the first type, but more often it's the second. That's just reality, no one is perfect. You can still be friends though, and have a good time when you eventually do get together.

Don't expect more from them, and don't give more of yourself than makes you happy.

Please explain

People will use anything as an excuse! Dog needs washing, too cold out, jeans won't fit, lap top is broken, hair looks funny, DH father died six months ago. Kids are such an obvious one they'd be crazy not use it.

I look on the bright side, at least with a lame excuse people are actually letting you know, and not just not turning up on the day.

Op, your view of motherhood is a bit “Sunday supplement” to say the least.

My ex wouldn’t change a nappy so I couldn’t leave dc unless willing to risk raw nappy rash. I breastfed dc to 18 months. It took a while to get the leaking boobs, exhaustion and a baby who could explode liquid poo up the back of his babygro under control. And once got dc into a sanity-maintaining routine, I wouldn’t have risked messing it up.
I live rurally now, single with no local family support. The average day is 6.30am get dc up, fed, on the bus, then work, collect dc off bus, home, cook, eat, ensure dc does homework, check ready for next day, sleep.
I socialise at the weekends in between the washing, cleaning and swimming lessons. Normally with other mums who are also grabbing an hour’s downtime and who understand. Anyone visiting my house is welcome to tea and cake, but there are no handy local teenagers willing to babysit at the drop of a hat. I see my pre-baby friends maybe twice a year. My last relationship went south because man wanted to go to Oslo for weekend and wanted me to “get rid” of dc
I hope your parenting years are easier and more glamorous but will be here to sympathise if they aren’t

From my post above ”...and prefers to socialise with other mothers and/or prioritises those who are good with her kids.”

That’s nothing to do with 50/50 workload splits (or otherwise) and everything to do with choice. It is sometimes a choice to drop your childfree friends.

To be honest in some of these cases of course the person who has had children is dropping/ not making an effort to see some of the specific individual friends described here.

It's very hard to be good friends, rather than friendly aquaintances, with someone who finds your child annoying and wishes they weren't there. This is the case even if you objectively see their point. Your own children are part of you in a way almost nothing else is, and knowing that your friend doesn't like them is the same as knowing that your friend doesn't like and would prefer to change something intrinsic about you - your skin colour or accent or eyes or the job you've trained for years to do and which takes up more than an average amount of time, or very deeply held religious beliefs - anything you can't / can't easily and would never want to change.

Many childfree people and people with children have great friendships and accommodate one another.

However on the developing subject of people being "good with" their friends children this basically means quite liking them.

Going out of your way to maintain a close 1:1 friendship with someone who doesn't like something central to you goes against human nature. Being friendly with someone like that when life throws you together all the time without effort is one thing. You'd have to have a rock solid foundation of shared history and interests to make it worthwhile putting in the work to maintain a friendship which would fall by the wayside without effort, if the other person essentially doesn't like your children and wishes they'd never been born though! Remembering to ask after children's health out of politeness is something colleagues do, but if friends are not "good with" them and this is code for not liking them, motivation to make an effort will naturally disappear especially when children are small and therefore with a parent most of the time.

Expecting mothers to stop breastfeeding and become their pre pregnancy self at 6 months is very naive. Babies are very much still babies at 6 months. Breastfeeding to a year or beyond is very normal and recommend, and a six month old is utterly and completely dependent. Some parents are comfortable leaving 6 month old babies but it's completely natural not to want to. If the baby was part of your body for 9 months and completely reliant on you for food for another 6 of course it's a big wrench to leave them, and quite natural not to feel happy about it or to do it when not essential for many mothers.

Casual or hard work friendships will always fall by the wayside where effort is required to see one another and common interests and mutual understanding no longer exists. That's hardly a surprise.

if friends are not "good with" them and this is code for not liking them

Not always, it’s not. I genuinely like my friends’ children, I find them interesting. But I am awkward around children and don’t always know how best to interact with them.

So no, “not good with” does not mean “does not like”.

OP I can see from your pov and also possibly from your friends... I don't know what it's like to have kids but I am currently pregnant and it's awful (can't wait for the baby, hate being pregnant). There are so many symptoms it's overwhelming and I'm constantly tired and often still sick (2nd tri, first was worse). During first Tri in particular, any interest in socialising and responding to texts or having chats went right out the window. I was in a little bubble of just doing the essentials ie work, eat, sleep. Even now things are better I'm still a lot like that and if I overtire myself I get horribly sick again. I overtired myself Sunday by going to Aldi, doing a 20min dog walk, and sitting at a family BBQ for a few hours! So it's definitely not a normal persons version of 'over tired' either. I do think that if your friends are pregnant maybe this is why they're not being such great friends at the moment?

And- can hardly believe I'm admitting this- but I swear some biology has taken over my brain because I genuinely cannot comprehend why the world hasn't stopped now I am pregnant!! Feels impossible to care about much else and like I should be quitting work and focussing on baby already. Which is crazy and I have no intention of quitting work even after the baby is here, but everything that isn't the baby is a whole lot less interesting now. Not a way I'd have expected myself to feel!!

BrightYellowDaffodil in that case I don't think it would effect a friendship, but lots of people say they are "not good with" children to mean they don't like them. Not liking a friend's specific, individual children and wanting them not to be present puts a massive damper on a friendship. Not wanting to cuddle a baby or play with the children whilst being perfectly happy that they are around is completely fine and in fact IMO better than people who treat babies like toys and expect "a turn"

The op expects babies over 6 months to be left with the other parent when a mother is in friend mode, and this is off-putting to a lot of mothers. That's just how it is, no matter that the OP thinks it shouldn't be. As they get older and their world gets bigger it's more comfortable to be away from them. I'd never have left mine at 7, 8,9 or even 12 months for something purely optional like a coffee, but if they were welcome to come along I'd be there.

When children are very small a friend who wants you to get rid of them to see her on a regular basis becomes a "friend" whereas one who's happy for them to be about remains a friend.

I found that some of my friends wouldn't keep up with me after I become a parent.
When we met and I spoke about my child I was accused of only talking about children now...at the same time I listened and tried to be interested when friends spoke at length about her dog and cats..It got to a point where I stopped making effort as they weren't making one either.

In the end I have a child and I will talk about him on occasions. It's impossible to talk about what's happening in my life without talking about my child. I found some of my childless friends can't or won't accept that.

i don’t think anyone is saying being pregnant or having kids isn’t hard.

However non parent still have hard times / challenges eg ill health.

How would you explain people who have (non pregnancy related) ill health being able to keep in touch but parents not?

All I am talking about is sending a few texts btw - which is all I expect from some parent friends, but still seems impossible.

BoomBoomBoomLetMeHearYouSay have you perhaps run out of things to say to one another? If they feel they shouldn't talk about their children and are currently not doing anything they think you'll be interested in hearing about, and meeting up is off the table... Texting presumably comes devoid of meaning at some point if you're no longer meeting in person, not planning anything together and no longer have anything in common... Once a "how are you? How's work? How's Andy?" exchange has run its course there's only so many content light text messages you can send, and repeating the ritual becomes less and less meaningful over time if you haven't had any proper conversations in between.

*Once again I reiterate - breastfeeding usually stops after six months

Labour recovery same (disclaimer ; not ALL women, most)

And maternity leave stops after 12 months.

People still use the kids as an excuse until they're teenagers.*

Parenting doesn’t stop at toddlerhood though - I have two children, both adopted so I didn’t have the birth, feeding etc. But, they both need me near them a lot of the time. Their dad pitches in equally but my time is still not my own and won’t be until they’re much bigger.

It takes time to run a house, work, study, see family, see friends - all of which I did a lot of before children. Now, none of that has changed, I still keep my home, work, study, see people but I now also have to care for my kids, make sure they too are fed, clothed and rested. I have health appointments for them and school appointments for them, they also have friends they would like to see and some of those mums have become my friends too so my circle has got wider - needs more time. They have activities that they do and can’t get there independently. Even with my DH carrying half the load, my time is pretty tight - I still only have 24 hours in the day, and those sleeping hours aren’t sleeping hours some of the time because my children need me in the middle of the night more often than not.

If you honestly can’t see how adding one or two small, entirely dependent people into your life might mean you need to step back a bit from socialising - or that your social circle might change, you’re in for an interesting adjustment to parenthood.

I still see friends, thankfully my child free friends mostly understand that my life has changed and are happy to give me space to talk or vent, I understand they don’t want bored with my kids stories and I’m still me so there’s common ground. The child free friends I’ve pulled back from are the ones who talk about motherhood as a “members club”, who don’t understand that my tiredness levels are through the roof and my mind is sometimes elsewhere and who don’t see it as a competition or a slight on them that things have changed for me.

I recently had a conversation about Love Island, which I don’t watch because it doesn’t appeal. I made a comment along the lines of “I’ve got no problem with reality tv, I watch lots of it, but I don’t have much time for TV and Love Island isn’t something that interests me”. My child free friend somehow interpreted that as “now I’m a mummy I don’t have time to waste watching shite like you have” and took the huff with me.

I think it’s very easy to say parenthood won’t change you, that you’ll still be all things to all people and that you’ll not be overwhelmed by your kids. I don’t think however you can go through all that’s involved in being a parent without it changing you.