AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

[Hey1256]

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

I am happy to talk about their children and often do. I’m happy to suggest child friendly meet ups.

But yes maybe because I don’t have children we suddenly have nothing in common/to talk about. You might be right. Which leaves me trying to find new friends. Which is just quite sad.

Because it’s easier - sorry. When your kids are babies and toddlers it’s easier and far more relaxing to spend time with the family round the corner who have similar aged kids. You don’t have to travel or feel guilty that they have. They understand the minutiae of parenting. As they get older the kids interact. You do not feel you have to “entertain” them and that your kid is actually annoying them abit. Whatever they say I always slightly got this vibe with childfree friends which you rarely do from a fellow mother.

You meet lots of people when you have kids and shockingly I found some I clicked with more than my old friends anyway just having kids gave me a chance to meet them. I didn’t drop my old friends but am way closer to the 5 or so families who live nearby who we’ve essentially brought our kids up with than my single friends in London.

jellycatspyjamas that's a good post.

Childfree people can have huge amounts going on. When I was childfree I know that I was sometimes very busy. However some of the things I did - including the socialising - was optional.

With children after maternity leave there are the same demands on your time and organisational skills (and more so your emotional and mental energy) plus the children and everything that comes with them including potentially new friendships which happen naturally or you sought out while on maternity leave/ any extended parental leave or time as a sahp.

It is true that something often has to give.

I think the problem with being single and / or childless is that you don’t necessarily get the chance to organically meet new friends. So you having new mum friends (which is totally understandable) leaves a gap for us that you don’t have.

I’m going to stop pxosting on this thread now as it is making me feel quite down.

@BoomBoomBoomLetMeHearYouSay try not to get down.

Easy to say as I feel down too about the thread.

It's sad isn't it, that the first thing to go usually when starting a family is friends.

People forget loneliness can cause mental health problems, and even kill (mainly in old age people but still)

And loneliness is something everyone goes through child and childfree.

So now think why friendships would be the first thing to go? Doesn't make any sense.

I think I'm 2019 people prioritise the wrong things, relationships are a key part of life that help you mental state function.

The same people saying there's no time to send a friend a text are the same ones posting on Facebook. There's is time, just perhaps not as much as there used to be. Doesn't mean you have to ghost people.

I think so many people don't realise happy parents = happy children and think spending every living waking breathing moment with a child is for the good and it just isn't. Sorry, I don't have to be a parent to see or say this.

BoomBoomBoomLetMeHearYouSay mothers often talk about their children then feel bad about it afterwards, because they're afraid they're dull to childfree people. It's nobody's fault really but if you're taking turns talking about your life and being tolerant feigning interest in one another's lives it shows on both sides. It may genuinely be you don't have much in common atm even though you make the effort.

I can remember being afraid I was boring even to DH, father of all my children, when I had 3 under 5 and was a Sahm getting very little sleep... I didn't have much else to talk about for a few years and one sided conversations dry up... If you don't naturally bump into one another day to day it can feel as though you'd have nothing to say beyond small talk, and small talk is not friendship.

It's not a criticism or an excuse, simply an explanation which applies in some cases...

You are coming across as not very nice and not very understanding. I don’t know how you treat your friends but if you said some of these things to me I would probably want to tone down the friendship. Being pregnant and having children can be very hard for some people, and yes it can be so hard that you can’t find the energy (or even remember) to text some one. Everyone I know has been really understanding at the tunes when I have been scatty and they haven’t resented taking a break or chasing me. Likewise when my friends have been like that (not always child related) I’ve understood where they’re coming from and not taken it personally. It sounds like your approach to social interaction is rather selfish and all about your needs. That’s not how friendships work.

I think so many people don't realise happy parents = happy children and think spending every living waking breathing moment with a child is for the good and it just isn't. Sorry, I don't have to be a parent to see or say this.

I’m very happy, I have a good job, run my own business, an studying for a post grad in my field of interest, I have a really good circle of long standing friends and I have children.

Interestingly enough, if I say I’m too busy for “x”, it’s assumed it’s because of my kids, not all the other stuff I’ve got going on.

It’s fine to be sad that some of your relationships have changed, it’s patronising in the extreme to assume parents ditch their social life or are unhappy because those friendships have changed.

I think so many people don't realise happy parents = happy children and think spending every living waking breathing moment with a child is for the good and it just isn't. Sorry, I don't have to be a parent to see or say this.

You are assuming that parents aren't happy at spending time with their children? They would rather spend time with you presumably? Some of this thread is rather odd

Hey1256 happy parents = happy children is trite bollocks, not a universal, uncontroversial, truth which people "forget".

Like every cliche it has a grain of truth at core - miserable parents tend to make their children less happy.

However like every cliche it does not work as a motto to live your life by.

Sort out your own oxygen mask first yes, so you can be in a fit state to care for your kids. However that's totally different to parents who use happy parents = happy kids as an excuse to palm their kids off constantly on anyone half willing (whether the other parent or grandparents and other family or frequent paid babysitters on top of childcare needed to work) in order to go out drinking, go off on childfree holidays, persue time consuming solo or adult group hobbies, spend every weekend cycling without the children, go recreational shopping and childfree lunching at the weekend, or whatever).

Parents need a bit of childfree time once their children are older, but they also need their parents. Happy parent = happy children isn't a universal truth nor one of the ten commandments. It does not mean what your frequent quoting of it appears to mean, which is that mothers should return to their pre child lives ASAP and that if the mother his happy somehow this will magically make the child happy.

I'm done with this thread. Quite often the points I raise some people either misinterpret or take personally.

It sounds like your approach to social interaction is rather selfish and all about your needs. That’s not how friendships work.

To the above I'm not the selfish one, I'm putting in 100 percent effort and getting 20 back. Then getting 5 percent back after my friends start families.

Also to the poster that suggested I was saying that all parents are not happy I never said that. But a lot of them aren't due to to how they deal with motherhood. NOT ALL mothers, just some.

And it's the same work childfree people too, I just think sometimes people don't know what's good for them.

Call me selfish or what you want but I've had enough of posting because like boom said the thread is getting depressing.

You are assuming that parents aren't happy at spending time with their children? They would rather spend time with you presumably?

Ffs stop misinterpreting what I'm saying, please.

To the above I'm not the selfish one, I'm putting in 100 percent effort and getting 20 back. Then getting 5 percent back after my friends start families.

That sounds like a problem with friendship though rather than friends who are parents. I know there are times I feel I give more than I get, and times I get more than I give - depending on needs and life changes etc but over the piece it balances out to a pretty equal relationship. If it wasn’t equal before your friends became parents, it was never going to improve afterwards.

Sort out your own oxygen mask first yes, so you can be in a fit state to care for your kids. However that's totally different to parents who use happy parents = happy kids as an excuse to palm their kids off constantly on anyone half willing (whether the other parent or grandparents and other family or frequent paid babysitters on top of childcare needed to work) in order to go out drinking, go off on childfree holidays, persue time consuming solo or adult group hobbies, spend every weekend cycling without the children, go recreational shopping and childfree lunching at the weekend, or whatever).

This, 100%. I always think of happy parent = happy baby to mean that a child won't benefit from a tired drained parent.

The same people saying there's no time to send a friend a text are the same ones posting on Facebook

There is time, but I've found that once someone has had a child those who were there for them beforehand (not clubbing and drinking, but genuine emotional and practical support) are the first to get jettisoned if they don't have children. It is like a mummy's club and it does exclude people who haven't chosen or been able to have children and every excuse that is used is designed to make us feel more and more like shit and more and more excluded from society.

I spent years in my 30's trying to have a child and trying to maintain friendships and pretend that my worries about my health, my reproductive difficulties, my husband's mental health and my work were less important than their pregnancy and birth. It drove my husband to suicide and it drove me to the brink. We needed friends too, yet we were excluded. In the days, weeks and months following my husband's suicide I didn't get even a text or a sympathy card from any of those friends. One did try and come to the funeral - with her toddler. My mother turned her away on the basis that it was not the right place for a child; that my husband had taken his own life due to us not being able to have children and I was in a fragile mental and physical state. I never saw that woman again.

In fact I never saw or heard from any of them again. I had to build a new group of friends from scratch at a time when I was struggling to come to terms with my own grief. Now I know that some parents will find an excuse for those people and I know that not all parents will ditch their friends - but people do and it hurts like hell. There really isn't an excuse for not sending a simple text saying sorry your husband died to a grieving widow.

Let the friendships drift and free up space to find new friendships with people who are happy to make more effort.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I'm so sorry for your loss.

And I completely agree with what you said, there is an exclusion from society when you reach a certain age and don't have children.

It's very sad.

Xx

Only one of my good friends disappeared after having a baby. Generally, those with babies I make plans to go to them as it’s easier. Even if I pop over for an hour for a cuppa while baby is napping. I’ll never understand why some people find it so hard to stay in touch with people post kids. I honestly think it’s because they a) think they’re now too important for you or b) didn’t really value your friendship in the first place.

So sorry @Leighhalfpennysthigh 😔

I agree with what you’ve said about being excluded. I feel it now.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I’m so sorry for your loss, what an awful thing for you to have to cope with.

I’ve seen it from both sides, I had 25 years of trying for a baby, struggling with infertility and then an adoption process from hell before having children. Yes there were people I felt didn’t have space for me once kids came along, who didn’t understand my work role or the importance my career held. Folk who had no idea how to support me with my childless life. I also had friends who maybe didn’t entirely get it, but really tried, who included me in their lives and were part of mine. They are still friends now, post children even though our lives still are at different stages me with young children and them with adult children.

I think it’s about the quality of relationships, what you’re able to give and the support you’re able to receive from others and vice versa. Some folk are just hopeless at knowing how to care for others - some of my friends completely ignored my infertility, some focussed on it to the exclusion of all else. Neither approach was helpful. I know many folk have no idea how to talk to someone following a bereavement much less following suicide, it doesn’t excuse them but again isn’t necessarily about them being parents.

Some people are arses, some are born arses, some achieve arseholery along the way. Some are also parents.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I am so sorry for your loss.

There really isn't an excuse for not sending a simple text saying sorry your husband died to a grieving widow.

Of course! I really don’t identify with these types of people. Clearly they’re not friends and are quite self absorbed. There’s nothing wrong with being there for someone when they need support.. and when possible.

I’m Sorry to hear about your loss.

Because it’s easier - sorry. When your kids are babies and toddlers it’s easier and far more relaxing to spend time with the family round the corner who have similar aged kids. You don’t have to travel or feel guilty that they have. They understand the minutiae of parenting. As they get older the kids interact. You do not feel you have to “entertain” them

And this is exactly my point - it’s a choice because it’s “easier”. Will it be be worth it if you decide in a few years time that you’d like to reconnect with your child-free friends (now the children are older etc) and find they aren’t there because they haven’t forgotten how quickly they were dropped when it suited you?

And to follow on from the “picking up again when it’s convenient” thing, I have some friends who’ve always been open about how they know they’re not around and don’t have as much time. And when they DO have the time they’ll say something like “I’m sorry I haven’t been around much over the last few years, would you like to catch up some time now things are a bit easier?” And our friendship picks up more or less where it left off.

But others have said “Right I’ve got some more free time now they’re older/he has the kids EOW and I want to get back to being me! I can’t wait to do some grown up things again, let’s go out this weekend. You’ve already got plans? But I need a break? Don’t you realise how hard it’s been for me?”

I, I, I, me, me, me - no acknowledgement or awareness of how they’ve dropped people and picked up again solely at their own convenience. Those friendships get quietly but firmly left in the long grass.

It’s not a choice, because it is “hard” to take kids to places with no other kids and let them behave in a way that would allow you to enjoy any social interaction.

Tbh. Children polarize you.

I think the middle solution would be to stay in touch as a group of friends. Some
Childfree and some childless. That way the kids are entertained while you catch up.