AIBU to think some people become even more flaky and selfish after they have kids?

[Hey1256]

Ok so here’s the story, I’ve now lost a few friends over the years because prior to their pregnancies the friendship was mainly one way to start with. I would always instigate meet ups, I would always be the one to travel to see them because a half hour journey to most of my friends seems to be the other side of the world.

After their babies arrived I don’t hear from them, they cancel meets and NEVER want to travel anywhere.

Now, please don’t misunderstand what I’m trying to say - I totally get that when you have a child it is the priority and things become more difficult. But does it really mean you don’t care about anyone else enough to see how their life is going or want to see them, ever?

Fast forward a few years and quite a few of my other friends are having babies. One has been amazing, so good despite having the baby she has been making what effort she can which proves that you can still remember friends post baby.

The others I have not heard from them since they fell pregnant. If I don’t reach out to them and ask how they are it doesn’t happen.

Why is it that when some people have kids they start thinking people without kids lives are irrelevant? Not worthy of asking how they are? I know these friends keep in contact with their other pregnant friends. They haven’t wanted to initiate meet ups.

Anyway, it’s made me really upset. Do I just have shit friends? Why don’t people value social relationships anymore particularly once they have a child?

I’ve really had enough. Is it time to make new friends?

@Intheupsidedown I guess being on the flip side of my point though actually proves that some of the people turning selfish and flaky are choosing to be selfish and flaky.m as somehow you've managed to still reach out to people even though you have kids.

They could find the time to maintain relationships IF the relationship was important enough to them as you do with the relationships you're talking about.

So conclusion is that when a relationship doesn't continue on the basis someone has had a kid or one person feels like they're putting in more effort, it's because you are no longer as important as you once were and one of the two parties doesn't value the relationship as much anymore. For some people they're ok with that. Personally I'm not and will only wait around for a friendship for so long on these terms.

Jesus, this thread is probably the best contraceptive there is.

The way motherhood is painted on here...just why would you bother?! No sleep, no time, physical scarring, mental scarring, no social plans, can’t eat a hot meal, can’t shower alone, can’t go to the toilet.

I mean bloody hell, I’m on the fence about having children big i think after reading this thread my decision has been made.

I also agree that motherhood on this thread is painted in a completely different light to the thread the other day where someone wasn’t sure being a mother was right for them.

OP, I feel for you, I think you just need to start looking for new, possibly child free friends. Maybe download the Bumble BFF app or look into your local meet up groups or similar.

The way motherhood is painted on here...just why would you bother?! No sleep, no time, physical scarring, mental scarring, no social plans, can’t eat a hot meal, can’t shower alone, can’t go to the toilet.

Well, this isn't a thread about the awesome things about motherhood or how fulfilling it can be. It's about how bloody hard it can be during the baby and toddler years for a parent to maintain contact with their non-parent friends.

The things we're talking about are also mostly at their most intense in the first year and taper off thereafter. A woman whose youngest child is 4 and in reception is a whole different ballgame (usually).

Don't have kids if you don't feel the pull, but this thread is by its nature an unbalanced elucidation of life with small kids.

@lefields

I dont understand the whole not being able to shower thing.

From day one of dd I have managed to shower In the mornings, put on fresh clothes, have breakfast etc.

Yes its tiring but it's different. I think what helped me is that I am quite organised. If I have made plans for the day I have a plan of action. Get stuff ready the night before, know when I need to be up to have time to get ready etc etc. Wont deny I have been late on a few occasions and if I dont write something in my diary then it's likely I will forget as my brain only has so much capacity

I do think some people struggle to adapt and change their lifestyles but I dont see why it should have such a major impact on friendships and maintaining those even if the volume of time you spend together is a little less

If you are a non parent either voluntarily or by choice what should you do? Give up on the friendship and find new friends?

Yep. I dumped them before I had to sit through the endless patronising comments that the rest of society aims in my direction.

It is easier as you get older. I'm late 40's now and find there are a lot of women who didn't have children for whatever reason who are in my age group. Also women with older children. I'm not even a demanding friend. I too have little time for socialising and it's been over 25 years since I went clubbing, but a dinner, drink, coffee now and again with a friend is nice and I don't think we should be accused of being demanding or told we're not important for wanting that. Society judges non-parents enough without so called friends doing the same - so get rid of them, I say.

It's probably best for the planet if fewer people have children - certainly don't do it if you are put off just by this thread, which isn't about what's good about having children.

Intheupsidedown when people say they can't shower they mean they can't shower without the baby screaming throughout, and are not willing to subject their baby to that level of stress. Some babies are content to lie in the cot awake, but others (due to reflux or temperament or whatever reason) are miserable or uncomfortable or stressed if not being held (or held upright). Some parents are comfortable leaving a baby to scream for a few minutes but some are not.

I managed to shower but never at the expense of leaving a baby to scream. That meant I couldn't necessarily shower exactly when I wanted to. I never left any of my babies to cry and think it's poor parenting to do so, but I am aware other people think differently and as long as it's not for long periods it's just a matter of opinion whether it matters.

It's not that they literally cannot shower, it's that they cannot justify leaving their small baby screaming in order to do it. There are no gold star capability awards for the pure luck if having a baby happy to be left in the cot, or being fine with leaving your baby screaming.

intheupsidedown cluster feeding, having a baby who SCREAMS for the whole time you're in the shower are a couple of reasons i wasnr always able to have a proper wash and get dressed into nicely styled clothes , do my hair and maje up. Some babies are easier than others, can't you see that?

Oh and mine woke up every time i turned the shower off if i dared to shower while she napped. Which wasn't great.

When I had DS1 I felt such a mess and was in such a daze I was too embarrassed to see my old friends. When I felt more in control I saw some of them but mostly felt like I'd rambled too much or left DS in the pushchair too long...It just became easier not to see them.
When I had DS2 I was even more of a mess, there was no way. At least others with small babies understood the internal chaos and wouldn't judge me for never being able to finish a sentence or listen to the answer to a question.
Yes, I loved my friends and I miss them so much...But I just couldn't handle normal social interaction anymore. :-(
So perhaps your friends do still love you and miss you. And if you can wait for them to get their heads round this (which may take years) you can still be friends. But obviously, why would anyone wait that long.

Personally when I do get a chance of a bit of time to myself, I just want to be alone. I just don’t want anybody to ask for anything. After I’ve had my fill of that, then I’m ready to socialise.

Our friendship group is now pretty evenly mixed between child-free and ‘with child’. We’ve been friends as a group since school and had times where some of us will be less present / absent as hell because, as the others have said, it’s just bloody exhausting. As the kids get older the parents re-emerge and can do more stuff. The dynamic varies from year to year.

BUT (and I speak as someone with a 3 year old) out of those child-Free people in my friendship group, there are some I prefer to spend time with over others. The lady who always has a crisis, has always had a crisis, will always be mid crisis? Always a fucking crisis. And I’m not minimising genuinely disruptive events. They are crises of her own making.
She won’t be getting a call any time soon, because she’s made very little effort to understand or appreciate the changes that others’ lives have gone through. She’s also very hard work. We see each other in a group setting but she just isn’t interested in my life as a mum. I get that, but that means that she isn’t interested in me. My identity has changed and I’m actually fine with that.
The guy who is also childfree but who makes genuinely interesting and fun conversation? Yep, i’ll meet him anytime, because as well as interesting conversation he also plays with the kids, understands that we’ll have to stop our conversation 80,000 times, understands that any snacks he brings into the house are no longer his property..... etc. He understands that his being child-free does not mean that kids can be off the table in every situation. As such I’m happier to make the time for him, one on one.

I guess the difference is that the former friend says things like ‘do you want to come over for a coffee’ or ‘shall we meet for a drink in the pub round the corner from me at 7pm’ whereas latter friend says ‘I’ll come to you, when’s best?’ Or ‘do you want to escape for a bit?’. ‘Where’s best for you?’ It’s understanding. When my son is older and less demanding of my time, I’ll be able to give back in terms of that flexibility.

The goalposts have moved. As a person I’m not even in the same stadium any more. Some child free friends are now bloody hard work whereas with others, it feels that nothing has really changed.

OP, my ex used to get very ‘into’ friendships and the slightest drawing back from those friends or perceived lack of attention would have her saying ‘I make all the effort, why does this happen to me’, why do my friends always fade away’ etc.
And in the nicest possible way, it was because it was all about her. Everything. She really had no interest at all in her friends as people but had built an alternative reality in her head where she was so into everybody else but they couldn’t be bothered with her. She too was hard work. My life because easier when our relationship ended. I’m no longer in contact with her (which apparently caused another soul-searching ‘now I’m just somebody that you used to know’).
I’m not saying for a moment that you are like that. But if you’re saying that this seems to happen with most friendships.....

Friendships don’t automatically dissolve when that baby pops out. But limited time and mental space on the new parent’s side means that any free time (mainly having a wee) needs to be prioritised. Kids, partner, work, friends who are on the same wavelength. After that, there’s no time left and I’m back to reading the bloody cat in the hat or trying desperately to think of something for dinner that isn’t pasta.

That was long.
TL;DR - time is limited for people with kids so they prioritise people who truly get it.

I am so depressed by this whole thread 🤦🏼‍♀️

@Thatsnotmyname4291 I'm the same in needing that alone time, am a complete introvert so if I get the odd two hours then I just like to be alone, no phone calls or texts either.

Oh actually something else that another post has reminded me is that whether friends have kids themselves is much less important than whether they are good with my kid! I've got child free friends who love playing with my son and I will gravitate to them because he will have fun with them too.

I had it the other way around. Close knit circle of friends pre kids, only 2 of which are still around. Both also have kids. I couldn't drop everything for a night out, couldn't afford weekends away, wasnt drinking due to breastfeeding = me being boring. I had some pretty crappy friends years ago. Now I have a mix of friends with kids and child free friends. All of whom I make time for.

They are exhausted and you are not.

It is possible to be exhausted without having children. I suspect ....

@MissB83

Exactly this!

The friendships of mine that have lasted through kids/non kids have been the ones that value mine and DH's interactions with their kids. That's despite us not having our own children until much later.

There have been plenty of friends that immediately started to drift years ago when they had children and we didn't. But now we've got a little one, they all suddenly want to be best friends again. And it's usually to impart their wisdom around childrearing and talk about children non stop which is just tiring. They've made the huge assumption that just because we have a baby, we're no longer interested in anything else.

I completely understand where you're coming from OP. We're not all ready to dump or friends just to hang out with other parents. I guess it just emphasises who your real friends were to begin with.

@mango - that is so interesting. Both dh and I were single for large parts of our 30’s. When we got together we both suddenly got more popular and started to get invites to stuff by couples who had ignored us individually when we were single!

A shout out to all the child free insomniacs out there. For six months last year I slept a max of two hours per night. I didn’t really tell anyone except my partner and GP, and it put a huge strain on my mental and physical health. I run a business so no sick leave, and there is no cure for insomnia. This could be me for life. It’s been going on now for 10 years but that six month period was a particular low. So to be told by two women (friends of a friend, both new parents, who I had the misfortune to be at an event with) during that time that I had no right to ever say I was tired (which I hadn’t) as I can’t understand tiredness unless I am a mother, is insensitive to say the least. As are some of the comments above saying that no child free person can ever be as tired as a parent. Is parenting not usually a choice? With an end in sight to the sleepless years? And a reward for the sleeplessness in the form of your child? Tiredness is obviously awful but don’t use it as a way to be cruel to others.

I'm actually going through the opposite right now. I'm the first in my group of friends to have a baby and all my friends seem to have forgotten about me. I went through a lot in the first weeks and think I had slight PND and none of my friends bothering with me really got me down. I have always made an effort but don't really get anything back. Different but similar situation but it sucks so I feel for you.

OP these are not good friends. I think you’re just unlucky with your circle. I don’t have kids yet but some of my friends have and they are still making an effort. I obviously understand I need to work around their baby, eg childcare/buggy accessibility/nap time etc, but they are also still messaging just as much, still asking about me and my life and still keen to organise meet ups as long as it works with their kids’ schedule.

Time to make some new friends.

My two best friends with children (I'm childless) like to see me & I see them at least twice a month if not more.
They have children aged 1to 4.
I'm very flexible- I've even been to soft play!!

Basically they've always been good caring friends.

I think OPs problem is that she has friends who have ALWAYS been uncaring & flaky.
She needs new friends!!

I'm very flexible- I've even been to soft play!!

That is above and beyond tierra! Nearest thing to hell on Earth, hate them

This thread is getting me really down.

This thread is making me come to the realisation of the fact that it's not people with kids that get flaky, some people are just flaky.

I feel really unfortunate to have ended up with some of the circles I have.

Isn't it funny how you sometimes end up with a circle of people around you out of circumstances kore than anything else.

I guess I'm down about this realisation.

I'm sad

Hey1256 have you heard the saying friends are for a reason, a season or for life? It’s twee as fuck but it’s true. I know you feel sad now but don’t taint the memories you do have with anger and sadness. Some people’s lives may entwine with yours again but I do think it’s wise to only put your energy into those friendships you get something out of.

Just to address other posters points of why bother with kids if it’s so awful, well it is really hard but the hardships seem to measure up pretty equally with the rewards.

It’s a bit like marathon running - it gives you blisters, takes over your life with the training and the diet etc. You risk becoming a running bore and pissing off people with requests for sponsorships but the reward is worth it and most importantly it’s nit for everyone and that’s okay. I would still offer some sympathy to someone moaning about their blisters.