To have lost all respect for Leave voters?

[KennDodd]

It's their fault we're in this mess and I can only see it getting worse.

Here you go @justintimberlakesfishwife:

The EU is a political construct, called The Project. I stood in a lift listening to a French socialist politician called Dominique someone or other (so not pretty, such incredible style) lecturing another politician. The Eurosceptic politician said: 'my job is to represent my constituents (you can tell they were British). Dominique replied: NO. Your job is to explain The Project to the people.

Heard with my own suchlike ears.

The trouble with The Project, is that it is a top down organisation - harmonisation, regulation, tariffs.

The most ambitious part of The Project, is the Euro. Therefore, UNLIKE UK WHO REFUSED TO SIGN UP, those governments are unable to use monetary policy and devaluation, to control their surplus and their debts. Therefore, money flows from the meditterranean countries, into Germany. The EU is actually in reality, the Deutschmark and Germany battles with a huge surplus it cannot get rid of.

These things severely distort markets, adds huge costs and renders it uncompetetive. The EU is the slowest growing market in the world. And soon, it is not going to be the largest single market either. Why tie in to it?

China, India and Africa (and other emerging markets) are going to be more important. They are not as regulated and thus are more flexible and competitive. We need to be able to respond to them - Brexit, paradoxically, is about globalisation. UK trades more with USA than it does with Europe.

Notice the facts rather than emotion?

And ultimately, the proof is in the pudding. That Brexit is economically a good idea? MONEY SAYS SO. Unemployment is so low in the UK when compared to say, Spain or Portugal. Why? Foreign Direct Investment into UK in the last 3 years is more than Germany and France combined. Crispin Odey and Jacob Rees-Mogg literally put their client's billions where their mouths are and back Brexit. Trust these calculations are finely number crunched on complicated algorithms but they calculated Brexit is better for UK and will make us better off in the end.

REMAINERS SHOULD KNOW THESE FACTS instead of screeching on about 'lies' and 'we are all going to perish'.

No they'll have a nice cushy career in the EU to look forward to

Not if we leave they don’t

Do you really think BoJo and JRM have the best interests of this country and its citizens at heart?

PS Immigration is irrelevant. Europe is not having enough children, so immigration is required.

Rean

Your assement made me think of many remain posters on here

Brain washed tribalist in politics, rigid and entrenched in thought process.

And wealthy! Sadly usually Labour supporters (wealthy) taking advantage of wealthy, grammar schools, garden parties at bucks House.... People who have actually never experienced poverty or major instability in life.

But people who are happy to crush the poorest among us.
Frank field pleaded before the referendum, please vote leave for the poor.

I've seen Frank field, a truly kind compassionate man being called Vile names on here by labour supporters. Awful.

Well, one only has to look at the likes of Lord and Lady Kinnock to see that there are many failed politicians who find a natural home in the EU.

@ScreamingLadySutch, forgive me for not being all that convinced by something some random on the internet reckons they overheard in a lift...

Though I believe you about Rees-Mogg and his clients. That's the point. Brexit is a way for the already-wealthy to increase their wealth at the expense of everyone else. The worse the mess, the more these sharks stand to rake in. THIS IS WHY THEY ARE FORCING BREXIT THROUGH.

Meh.

Our trade with the EU has been steadily declining. Better to address the issue now than in a decade (although many of the more selfish types would seemingly rather have left the problem for future generations to sort).

And 'unemployment is low' my arse. What that means is many people on zero-hours, insecure contracts working for shit wages.

Bet they wished they had voted for Mays awful deal now.

Leave voter and would vote leave again

The country voted to leave. Leave we should.

@Autumn do you honestly think overprivileged cocooned twats like BJ and JRM give a shiny shite about the poor?

And no, I'm not a big fan of Momentum either, silly students and aging commies who talk a good fight but are useless at getting anything practical done and far too interested in rucking among themselves to pull together in the face of the real danger posed by the far-right.

It is the fault of every single MP who voted to support a referendum without debate or discussion what the public would be voting for - it had already been declared they government would stand by the decision of the people

UKIP had just one a record number of votes - wtf were they thinking

How could that have even happened when other less serious issues are debated for hours

Utterly incompetent every single one of them they got carried away with the idea of a referendum

Neil Kinnock was the leader of the opposition. Hardly a “failed politician”. Although he and the Mrs have done nicely out of the EU, I agree. Ditto Farage, especially given he rarely turns up.

I blame anyone who voted Tory in the first place. Like it or not, the whole situation has come about due to ugly xenophobia which whilst once, latent has now resurfaced...no matter how you dress it up it's xenophobia and has undone much of the peace process.

Yes I'm very curious about the identity of this stylish but not beautiful French female socialist MEP called Dominique not a current MEP in any case, the only female French MEP called Dominique is a member of the Rassemblement national (ex-Front national).

I don't currently care about whose fault it is, I think that squabbling about who is to blame is unproductive, divisive and dangerous. I care enormously about what can be done to prevent a disaster. Once there is a clear way forward, then is the time to be handing out blame. I just wish I knew what the best way forward is.

Why can’t we just have Theresa May’s agreement and move on? Yes it’s worse than being inside the EU, but every other option is also worse.

Let’s just sign it and get on with negotiating the future relationship. Rory Stewart et al are quite right about this. Fulfils will of the people as well. What’s not to like.

smallbusinessprices.co.uk/remain-eu/

I’ve no respect for leave voters and MP’s trying to make it happen. They are destroying our frictionless trade, free movement of people and all the reasons listed on the link.

Screaming lady.

People don't understand what your saying, that's the problem.

Because Mays deal is flawed. No deal leave. Or don't leave.

So what if May’s deal doesn’t please everyone. The sooner we sign it, the sooner we can negotiate our future trading relationship etc

For 90% of the voters, this shit storm isn’t their fault. We were lied to. We’ve been lied to for a long time and so we couldn’t even recognise the bull shit being delivered by both sides. I know people who voted leave and I know people who voted remain. In my circle at least, each believed they were making the best decision for the country based on the bull shit that was spread by both sides and their own experiences. I can’t say I agree with all the reasons people have said why they voted that way, someone voted leave so house prices would crash and young people would have a chance at getting on the property ladder (not for their child either as he had bought a house for his child), someone voted remain for the cheap EU holidays.

The campaign fed off lies and childish insults to the other side. It then perpetrated this us vs them mentality, where leave voters blames remain voters and vice versa. It was designed to divide the population and they’ve at least achieved that. We are in a time of right wing politics making an up-swing globally and we were just unfortunate enough to have someone (Nigel Farage) who knew how to capitalise on the down-to-earth politician look and link People’s fears with his own racism. He’s fucked us over. That, and the fact that we’ve been lied to for so long by our politicians that too many people were considering UKIP as a protest vote and Cameron had a knee jerk reaction.

I’ve lost all faith in our political system and all MPs. It doesn’t matter if we leave/don’t leave, it’s going to take a long time to rebuild the trust in the political system.

@KennDodd

"But leave voters can see how this is unfolding and STILL think Brexit is a great idea. Most haven't changed their minds and still want to put the rest of us through it."
How you feel about remaining is probably how the leave voters feel about leaving. They probably wonder why you want to put them through it by trying to keep them in the EU.

"Risking the peace in NI"
Why would it be risking the peace there is? Peace can only exist where people want peace. People in Ireland want peace. There won't be a sudden outbreak of war.

I am a Remainer but I still think YABU. This devisive nonsense isn’t getting us anywhere. I blame the politicians, putting party politics and personal ambition before the well being of the British people. Cummings/Farage/Cameron/Johnson/Gove etc.

Ordinary people were sold a lie and voted Leave because nobody was listening to the real issues. I think very few people who voted Leave really want what’s happening now.

I don't want what's happening now no. What I want is for the house to represent the outcome of the referendum and leave the EU on 31 October 'come what may'