To think this is the end of the Tories

[SirJamesTalbotAndHisSpeculum]

…..as we know them.

None of them can agree with one another. It seems that there will be utter chaos when the Election is called as their Manifesto will be impossible to write.

Regardless of left or right we look like idiots!! If we won’t threaten to leave without a deal and have to take one...the will give us the worst one possible to make an example of us...I would prefer to have nodeal than a bad deal.

I don’t want labour in.....I’d rather eat my foot

I don’t want labour in.....I’d rather eat my foot

Is that because of Corbyn?

So, leaver or remainer we are all in agreement then?

Yes, Curious, I think we are.

Politicians have finally found something on which the whole country can unite.

I predict that the Tories will get a majority of over 100 seats.

Its far more likely to be the end of Labour.

Meanwhile back in the real world ...

Oh please! We need a complete rethink of how parliament works. My theory ...

Before election all MPs must live in the constituency. All MPs to be paid £120000 per year and have no other job whatsoever. All to be at Westminster on Monday to Thursday. House to sit Monday to Thursday 1200 to 1900 and at end of day any work in progress has vote taken. Parliament to sit all year with one week off at Christmas and Easter. MPs to take holidays as the rest of us do [with "pairing" arrangements to balance government and opposition].

And so on

Before election all MPs must live in the constituency.

I've been arguing for that for decades! Any candidates must either live or work in the constituency for, say, 2 years, prior to selection. Great damage has been done by central office of all parties "forcing" in their preferred candidate. It's led to lots of the "Metropolitan Elite" gaining safe seats in areas they know nothing about. That's caused more "london-centricity" because many of those MPs care more about power than they do about the constituents there are supposed to represent. It has to stop!

It really is bizarre that candidates/MPs do not have to live in their constituencies, or even know much about them prior to being elected.

It’s going to get worse if Johnson and Cummings are going to parachute their candidate of choice into 21 vacated seats.

Personally, I think BJ will be elected with an increased majority and a mandate. This is because in a world of flux he will look like the only person with a definite plan and evidence of leadership and people will vote for this over uncertainty. Also, I'm not going to find the sources, but I am fairly sure it is well-known that people tend to vote conservative in times of crisis. Failing this, I suspect that public disenchantment with conventional politics and politicians will simply usher in a populist candidate.

Corbyn's bullshit extremist left policies are traditional socialist policies that provide decent education health and wages for the many. He only seems very left wing because the Tories have moved so far right that their own members are leaving. Corbyn is the real deal, and what we need right now. JC4PM

People vote Tory in a crisis created entirely by the Tories?

People vote Tory in a crisis created entirely by the Tories

Sadly, yes. Look at Thatcher and the Falklands.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/09/margaret-thatcher-falklands-gamble

@YetanotherSpartacus, unfortunately the flaw in your argument is that Johnson hasn’t got a plan - or at apart from the one involving his own ambition.

Urgh. Complete mess. In answer to the OP, no I don't think it is the end of the Conservative party. What is happening though is the purging of non-eurosceptics and moderates, to be replaced by sycophants of Boris and Brexiteers. The result will be a more extreme anti-europe party, not its eradication.

On the streets, in the pubs, in the cafes, purely anecdotally my feeling is that the people want Brexit done. 'Just get out' is the mantra I hear. The nuances of a deal, Northern Ireland etc. doesn't mean much to a good proportion of the electorate. The brinkmenship of no deal will win over the people who would vote UKIP/Brexit Party and I think they stand a good chance of winning an election. There is a widespread distrust of Corbyn among a wide range of people. His core support love him, but outside of that, in my experience he isn't much liked. My feeling is that the 2017 was a bit of a fluke. Idealistic student voters we motivated and Teresa May had some own goals with the so called 'dementure tax' and ran a very uninspiring campaign. I don't see these circumstances being repeated.

For what its worth, I am disappointed by the descent. I am struggling to decide on who to vote for. I could never vote for a labour party hijacked by student politics of envy, with an agenda to punish the successful and treat villains as friends and friends as villains on the international stage.

However, the climate in the conservative party, and constructive dismissal of moderates that are doing their jobs, i.e. standing up for what they believe in, and what they believe to be in the best interest of their constituents, I'm not sure I want to vote blue.

Lib dems will do well, but won't win because so many want Brexit. And a good LD showing risks letting JC in through the back door as leader of an opposition alliance.

Least worst option? Possibly Conservatives and pray to god they can get their act together and return to their centre-right roots. A sensible modern labour party would get my vote if they existed.

I distrust both JC and BJ but I loathe John McDonell. I don’t believe his policies and views are good for this country.

The Tory party didn’t create the Falklands situation, it took advantage of it.

I think we are in for big upheavals, and what we really need is a strong swing to the left (no, not communal farms and the execution of 'intellectuals') - away from the appalling dangers of the far right and the billionaire class who have been manipulating the whole situation in order to enrich themselves further. Don't forget that the main push for Brexit is from the people who don't want to have to face the EU's tax reforms - and who also see a way to profit from economic disaser.

unfortunately the flaw in your argument is that Johnson hasn’t got a plan - or at apart from the one involving his own ambition

I think he has more of a plan than anyone else. It's not one that I agree with, but he is at least showing 'leadership' (note inverted commas).

The Tory party didn’t create the Falklands situation, it took advantage of it

It was a matter of how Thatcher did it, using the crisis and magnifying it to her advantage. Another way of looking at this is considering what Trump is doing (attempting to do) re Iran.

OK, if Johnson has a plan, what is it? He doesn’t seem to have shared it with anyone else.

We can only hope

I think though it's not just the end of the Tories, I think it's the end of politics as we know of it.

If that's a good thing, we shall see, but things do genuinely need to change.

The Tory conference might be interesting this year!

OK, if Johnson has a plan, what is it? He doesn’t seem to have shared it with anyone else

To call an election, hope for a mandate and go for no-deal. I don't agree with it, but I do think that in the morass it will look more definitive than anything else.

Personally, I think BJ will be elected with an increased majority and a mandate. This is because in a world of flux he will look like the only person with a definite plan and evidence of leadership and people will vote for this over uncertainty

I agree with this

I don’t like what he is doing but we have had a few years of not having leadership now we have and a poor opposition leader - he will return as PM with a majority

Corbyn himself is not supporting a second referendum he supports leaving but not without a deal

Labour are in a tricky position as many labour voters in safe seats voted to leave the EU and many of those voters will not support labour if they back a second referendum

@Bookworm4

"The people who claim to be a Labour supporters but don’t like Corbyn, you are voting for the party not a personality- leaders change and quickly as we have seen."
You are actually voting for the views held by that party. The party elect a leader who, as closely as possible, represents their views usually. So, in effect the leader is the one you vote for.

In the case of the Labour party I feel Corbyn is McDonnell's puppet and I think they should rename it The Communist Party.

I don't think it's the end of the Conservative party as we know it. I think its good that MPs who don't hold the same views as the majority of the party on extremely important issues are expelled. They need to join a party more aligned with their views or form a new party.

Politics does need to change. We need more honesty and transparency which would then encourage our trust when they have to make decisions that we can't expect to be involved in. (Such as Brexit negotiations with the EU).

I would like to see an MP represent the majority of their constituents' views rather than us having to vote for an MP whose views are the best of a bad lot.