To think this is the end of the Tories

[SirJamesTalbotAndHisSpeculum]

…..as we know them.

None of them can agree with one another. It seems that there will be utter chaos when the Election is called as their Manifesto will be impossible to write.

No I don't think so, I suspect labour is more at risk to be honest due to Corbyn.

At the moment the polls still have the tories as the biggest majority party. It's likely that will remain.

Not the end of the Tories. Look, posters are already coming out to blame Corbyn for the fact they're going to vote Tory.
It seems some people will vote for the Tories regardless and blame other people for their decision rather than owning it

Yabbers

None of them can agree with one another. It seems that there will be utter chaos when the Election is called as their Manifesto will be impossible to write.

This is true of every party TBH

That ^.

(I wish labour could get their act together. They should’ve voted in David Miliband all those years ago and we might not be in this clusterfuck).

The people who claim to be a Labour supporters but don’t like Corbyn, you are voting for the party not a personality- leaders change and quickly as we have seen. Get the Tories out and vote for the better of everyone not just yourself.

Fucking Boris Johnson - who's idea was that!???
Not sure who is worse - him or Corbyn?!
It's friggin' embarrassing

I do wonder how much the EU leaders are laughing at the UK behind our backs.

We are not a credible force at the moment. Yes. It's very embarrassing indeed.

It's certainly a complete calamity.

If only labour didn't have Corbyn...the labour front benches should be tearing the life out of the Tories but instead its Tory rebels.

I'm just hoping the Lib Dems can rise to the challenge, but I fear too many people vote for 'their' party without thought.

Bookworm, unfortunately, personality politics is a thing and plenty of people vote for a person. It got worse during the Blair years, all the smooth media campaigns. It isn’t just the personality though in this case. The parties are all in-fighting and cant even agree with themselves, what gives the voting public any confidence that they could run the country?

They should’ve voted in David Miliband all those years ago

I don't have a high opinion of David Miliband (personal experience) but even so, I agree. The wrong brother won. He changed the membership rules in a typically inept attempt to stop what was happening in Stirling and consequently opened the door to Jeremy Corbyn and his band of followers thus making the Labour Party what it is today.

David Cameron and Ed Miliband - both have a lot to answer for.

(I mean any of them, not specifically Labour).

They should’ve voted in David Miliband all those years ago
I couldn't agree more.
Things would be very different today if that had happened.

I don't care how we look to any other country. They can sod off, having all looked equally ridiculous at various moments in the past.

What I do care about is the parlous state of politics in the UK. Add to that the odd effects that social media is having on public expectations, mainly of being heard NOW and of having the right to having endless refereda to decide what we should do, as if it were like holding your hands up in class! Everyne is sudenly an expert and just has to be heard, their advice ated upion - expect of course for those politicians we elected to do such shit for ur us!

And now all osrts of political back bench nbpdies are shouting "Bring down the government"...

@Bookworm4 the problem is that as leader JC has lead change to the whole party making it extreme left wing and ignored the more moderate elements of the party. So yes the leader does impact the party. Just like what is also happening in the Tories under BJ..

So now we have two extremists as leaders of the main parties.

Where do we go from here?

I agree with SingingLily about David/Ed Miliband.

@EntirelyAnonymised
Yes sadly the cult of personality is taking over, but you’d hope people had a bit more intelligence: look where it got the US🙄
People need to remember new reporting is slanted in the Tories favour as the leading newspapers are owned by Tory donors.
I think more women need to research and educate themselves and not take what they read in the press as gospel. If you support Labour vote beliefs then vote for them not Tory who slashed benefits and drove people to suicide. Johnson’s promise of spending is reliant on more borrowing, he’s a fake and how anyone with any intelligence can vote for him is beyond me.

*core not vote

Johnson’s promise of spending is reliant on more borrowing, he’s a fake and how anyone with any intelligence can vote for him is beyond me.

I think his promises of more money for the NHS, police and education are just measures which try to deflect from his inability to be a worthy PM.

It's not Corbyn I fear. It's John McDonnell.
His policies are insane. Make companies with more than 250 employees give 10% of shares to employees? DH’s boss is already looking at sacking workers and hiring the same people back through an agency so they technically don’t count as employees.

Just four short years ago, I felt genuinely sorry for the Americans because I thought they were faced with an impossible choice between Honest Hilary and Trump the Tolerant. What did I know?

A Populus poll earlier this year showed that 66% of respondents identified with a political party but a whopping 90% identified as Leavers or Remainers.

According to the stats produced by Professor Chris Hanratty (widely accepted as accurate and often quoted) 70% of Conservative constituencies voted Leave. So did 60% of Labour constituencies. That backs up what EnthusiasmIsDisturbed said earlier.

Those are the real battle lines. Not Left or Right. That's why we saw the unlikely spectacle of a solidly working class Miners' Club earlier this year cheering Anne Widdecombe when she was campaigning in the Euro elections for the Brexit Party.

His policies are insane.

If he didn't exist, Dominic Cummings would have had to invent him. Merely by opening his mouth, he ticks off a task on Dom's "to do" list.

They were quite happy to throw the country off the bus, purely to neutralise the threat UKIP made to the party.

Had Labour been in power, they'd have done the same. UKIP took similar number of votes/seats away from Labour and was just as big a threat to them as the Tories. The Europe issue had been festering for decades (remember Thatcher v Heseltine in the 80s). Not just within Tory, but also within Labour who have also been split pro/anti for decades. It had to come to a head at some stage. The real disgrace is that NEITHER party addressed it years ago, thus allowing the likes of Farage to gain popularity.

Labour also have the issue that many staunchly labour voting areas (outside of the larger cities) voted to Leave

Labour were also losing support in traditional heartlands because they basically ignored them and left them to rot during the 13 years of Labour in power. It was all about London and other big cities and the traditional Labour heartlands were just abandoned. That won't be forgotten.

It surprises me how many people believe that the Lib Dems are a force to be reckoned with.

Hopefully

The real disgrace is that NEITHER party addressed it years ago, thus allowing the likes of Farage to gain popularity.

Completely agree, Kazzy. There were two times we should have had the Leave/Remain referendum, before it all got so entrenched and polarised. The first was before signing the Maastricht treaty (John Major, go to hell) and the second was before signing the Lisbon Treaty (Gordon Brown, follow in his footsteps, sharpish).

A plague on both of them.

So, leaver or remainer we are all in agreement then?

Our politicians have been crap for years and their continued dismisaal of the electorate as numpties is only going to speed their downfall.

Meanwhile, out here in the real world, we struggle to see how we can continue without some resolution to all of this.

But, also like our useless politicians, we can't see how the hell to fix it... well, we can as individuals, but maybe not so as to prevent the next sitting governement overturning, changing, ignoring what is decided, or a huge number of people being significantly disadvantaged.