To wonder what is more terrifying to the public of Mumsnet, Corbyn or Brexit Fallout?

[BlueDaBabaDee]

So either way we look we seem to have poor prospects.

Potential fears from either side...
Brexit = potential food shortages, medicine shortages, increase of house burglaries, riots, looting, at least half the jobs gone, pound becoming worthless, NHS collapse, economy going down etc.

Corbyn = land value tax, communist, everyone losing their property, house prices crashing, economy going down, etc

I'm not saying I believe either of these things exactly, although I think we will be facing an economy worse than the fall of 2008 after Brexit. I'm more curious as to what people here think.

So to the haters who will say "Another Brexit thread blah blah blah". No one made you click! Stop trying to silence the critics.

Anyways for voting purposes, what is more worrisome to you?

YANBU = the fallout from a BJ led No Deal Brexit
YABU = Jeremy Corbyn in charge

Remainers think that they are superior

Some

Some leavers also think that they (leavers) are superior

The trouble is that SOME Leavers
don’t help themselves or their cause. Remainers can be rude and superciious- but it’s unusual for them to sound as if they have very little idea about how politics or society or debate or history works. And that is certainly so of some leavers.

Of course I disagree entirely Bertrand.
Many Remainers in real life are pragmatic and want to get on with brexit in the best way for the UK and are horrified by 3 years of stalling in Parliament. They realise the schism Parliament has caused is now the bigger threat than brexit ever was.

Some Remainers on here have been going round in circles for 3 years demanding answers from any leave voter. I have seen extremely erudite intelligent posters (not I ) carefully answer questions and lay out their arguments...

Unfortunately ignored, written off by rabid frothing Remainers who I might add on here at least seem to have very personal reasons why they want to Remain, eg work for the eu.

The tone that strikes me most is lefty Remainers always calling people thick. This is very indicative of labour at the moment and which is a major reason why they lost their core vote.

@Supernova69 the article explained pretty succinctly how democracy works within the EU. I'm not a politician, or expert on the EU as an institution. But I do know that it's fundamentally democratic in nature so people spouting the "unelected bureaucrats" nonsense is talking rubbish. I agree that we have an issue in this country with engaging in the democratic process regarding the EU, and I feel that this stems from a lack of knowledge of how it works, and from the dominance of a eurosceptic press.
Even JRM has admitted it may take a generation - a whole generation - to recover from this. We are walking away from one of the biggest and strongest trading blocks in the world. The EU is vital regarding maintaining our safety and security. And I do believe has been fundamental in supporting peace in Europe.
My children are going to lose multiple rights that they have now. That makes me bloody angry.
And the NI border issue? A leaked government document has stated that none of the alternatives to the backstop will work. The GFA was a marvel of modern day diplomacy and brought peace to Ireland. There is a chance that it will now be ripped apart.
So please, if a leaver could give me some solid fact based reasons why Brexit is a good idea, and how we can solve the NI issue, then I'd love to know.

Oh man

I was nodding along with autumns post and then you ruined it in the last paragraph

I voted remain...not a lefty and not called anyone thick, don’t vote labour

But the rest was great!

Some Remainers on here have been going round in circles for 3 years demanding answers from any leave voter. I have seen extremely erudite intelligent posters (not I grin) carefully answer questions and lay out their arguments...

Could you link to some of the carefully answered questions, I'm still waiting to see any

The tone that strikes me most is lefty Remainers always calling people thick. This is very indicative of labour at the moment and which is a major reason why they lost their core vote.

What I've noticed is a lot of Leave voters coming on to threads and accusing PP's of calling them thick and racist yet I think in all the time Ive spent on Brexit threads I've seen them called thick a handful of times, Leavers you won get over it

Brexit fallout, no contest.

JC is one man, he can be ousted and replaced. Brexit is a clusterfuck that will have negative repercussions for years and years.

This is a really interesting read, it explains a lot about the differing posting styles of each side. Incidentally I’ve never called anyone “thick” in my life. If you have to descend to name calling, you’ve lost the argument.

lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/03/a-reminder-of-how-britain-voted-in-the-eu-referendum-and-why/

I am still, for example, waiting to hear which laws we will be able to make for ourselves that we have been unable to in the EU.

I tend to agree with corbyn’s ideology, but don’t agree he will make a good leader. I’d vote Labour over BrexitBoris though, but most wont. BJ will lead a dirty campaign in October, the easily deluded will buy it like they bought Brexit and he’ll romp it home with an increased majority and a mandate.

Im also waiting to hear how we are going to replace the immigrant workers and businesses we have already lost due to the hostile environment and Brexit uncertainty that the Tories and Nigel Farridge have created

The tone that strikes me most is lefty Remainers always calling people thick. This is very indicative of labour at the moment and which is a major reason why they lost their core vote

I keep saying this too (and there was another poster earlier on agreeing).
Labour are losing at the ballot box because they are no longer listening to their core voters.

And Corbyn is not running a successful opposition, leading the opposition shouldn’t be a passive role that exists to undermine the party in power it is the oppositions role to check and balance the party in power (hopefully leading to a Parliament which is never too far right or left leaning).

hopefully leading to a Parliament which is never too far right or left leaning

Centrism is why we are here

Brexit is an irreversible slide into Britain becoming a tax haven for the rich, privatisation of the NHS, a decline in worker's rights, loss of Eu protections around food safety etc. Corbyn would not last long at all and would be balanced out by the moderates in his party. I see Corbyn as ineffective but not dangerous. Vote Lib Dem if you don't like the others.

@Supernova69

''Of course it is. But once they start talking about how much better things will be once we’ve left then it’s surely reasonable to ask in what way?''

Well we shall soon see who is right or wrong...

Here is the difference. If we stay in the EU, I can tell you exactly where we will be in 5 years because I can see how the EU works. I know we can veto new memberships and that our representatives vote in the European Parliament in our best interests (except for the UKIP ones who boycott their jobs, despite enjoying the paycheck) I can assume that we will be living in peace and relative prosperity since that is what has been the case up to now.

You can't tell us much at all about where we will be in 5 years if we leave, particularly with no deal because the best economic and political minds in the world can't tell us that.

It is possible that it will all work out fine and we will be rich and happy and everything will be great. But it is just as likely that we will sink into an economic crisis not seen since the 1930s and the resultant public anger and wave of nationalism leads us to war with France.

The thing is, to take such a risk, there needs to be a real, tangible reward and nobody has identified one apart from vague ideas of independence and freedom.

I don't care about winning. I don't care about being right. I care about the poorest people in the UK who are going to be hit hardest by an economic downturn. I care about the NHS losing access to EU nursing staff and medication shortages. I care about the banking sector and the tax money they pay into the UK economy moving abroad. I care about people in Northern Ireland having to go back to living in fear. I care about the people from my hometown who rely massively on EU grants for urban and social development. Something I doubt Westminster would continue to fund.

If Brexit does go ahead, I would love for you to be right because if you're not, it is going to bring pain and suffering to a large number of people. Sadly, nobody has presented anything apart from rhetoric to suggest that you will be.

Corbyn making a valid point here

twitter.com/i/status/1168604337955889152

Rufus, I know your one of the more rational remain posters on here 😂😂

'waiting to hear...'

Why? Go and trawl back through brexit posts. Many leavers used to post, sadly not so much anymore they were drowned out.
So much stuff out there.

Bertrand you talk about the capacity for debate and reason and yet it strikes me that few Remainers actually critically did look at why people want to leave?

You see I could argue for both sides. If you have been a 'debater' rather like Boris it's natural to weigh up both sides of the argument! I can't fathom how anyone could vote without doing that!

So all this.. Waiting to hear.... Why!! Why have you not already done this research when you voted in the ref?
Baffles me . Nealry every descion I make there are two lists, positive and negative... I wish I could be more spontaneous however it's just how I am.

So Bertrand... Saying Remainers know debate but then declaring your still waiting for answers is jarring my sensibilities 😂

Maximus.

No. You cannot possibly tell us what will happen In the eu in next five years.

YetAnotherSpartacus I absolutely agree with you. I agree with many of the policies in the labour manifesto but Corbyn is the weak link. Trouble is I wanted to like him initially - he seems a relatively benign avuncular figure but the invective written about him is so extreme you don’t know what to believe. It’s so difficult to find a balanced opinion about him that doesn’t roll out tired rhetoric, you can’t work out what’s real and what’s not... is he a Marxist/ Stalinist anti Semite or just a centre left/ social democratic politician no more radical than those in Scandinavia.

JustAnotherPoster

I’m not sure what your meaning is -Do you think centrism is a bad thing?

And what are your thoughts on Labour not listening to its core voters? The Working Class (generally) doesn’t feel that Labour represents them anymore- how can this be addressed?

Brexshit. Corbyn will be gone in a year or two and I think replaced with a middle ground candidate with broader appeal.
Brexshit will reverberate for decades.

Pains me to say it because personally we’ll be hammered by Corbyn but I think everyone has a duty look at the bigger picture now. Its gone beyond the personal of the short term GE and become existential.

Herman - there are elements of Corbyn’s policies I disagree with and I think he has treated women appallingly, but there are other areas I agree with him about. But he can’t sell his message and others sell it for him ... badly (as you say).

Centrism is what brought us the saying of 'theyre all the same' in evidence take the Tory Lite manifesto of Ed Milliband, centrism is what lost Labour Scotland, Centrism is what has caused some Northern Labour voters to believe that UKIP nd now BXP has their well being in my mind, this rot started under kinnock but was compounded under Blair and his parachuting of MP's into seats, and its top down dictats, its only now were starting to see the roll back of that

Of course, what it was replaced with has proven so much more beneficial hasn’t it?

And just when this thread was turning into a reasonable debate someone comes along and spoils it all with “Brexshit”. Why do that?