To think it is now inevitable that Scotland will become independent?

[amandacarnet]

With brexit and the increasing move to the right wing, I think it is now just a matter of time until Scotland becomes independent.

I don't think there is any chance of Ireland reunifying without a return to bombings and terrorism.

So, you reckon that Scotland has observed the complete chaos that is trying to manage Brexit and thought, "yeah, let's have even more of that?"

Personally, speaking as a Scot, I'm not seeing any more appetite for it. Yes we're all fed up with the brexit shitshow but most of the people I know are of the opinion that taking Scotland out of the UK would be an even bigger shitshow. Scotland is hugely divided after the 2014 referendum and the Brexit referendum and I don't think there's any desire to go through all of that again, whatever Nicola Sturgeon has to say about it.

Also there have been lots of figures released recently showing just how poorly the Scottish economy is doing at the moment, and how much spending would have to be slashed if the country was independent.

I hope so. I think I will definitely see an independent Scotland in my lifetime. The idea that Scotland is too “impoverished” to be independent or part of the EU is utter rubbish based on silly racist stereotypes of Scottish people being dependent on English subsidies. As an independent nation Scotland would be one of the worlds and EUs wealthiest countries.

As for the bonkers comment about “imagine brexit with someone you share a culture and border with” - you seem to have forgotten all about Ireland. That’s what’s happening at the moment.

Ultimately you have a situation where if only under 60s were counted in the last independence referendum, yes would have won comfortably. Independence for Scotland is coming and not soon enough for me.

Otha perhaps you are right. But I think the economy is going to get worse with brexit anyway. If it does, then the reasons to stay become less compelling.

I think the answer will be yes this time and judging by the example of Southern Ireland, the negative economic consequences will take around 30-40 years to wash through.

So if there is a hard Brexit (which carries a similar negative economic outlook over a similar time period) it will be a fine judgment for the Scots - the devil or the deep blue sea.

My guess, based on our experience of the brexit referendum, is that next time an independence referendum is called, issues of emotional ‘identity’ will trump economics.

If they want to go, then they should be allowed to. I'm not sure how they would fare financially without the additional funding received from Westminster, but it would be interesting to watch how they get on.

@ssd

Perhaps you were just lucky.

Someone told us to "fuck off back to England" if we didn't want independence (incidentally we are both Scottish born and bred).

Ironically that person would now openly vote No.

Someone else told me that it was OK an independent Scotland would allow me to continue to live there even though I voted no...allow. Ponder the implications of that one.

You have been lucky. And no. I didn't argue with anyone.

My post wasn't even about whether independence would be a good thing or not. Just that I think it is now inevitable. And I suspect that the Conservative party don't even realise the impact of brexit on this matter.

Yes

Scotland doesn't share a border with Ireland. It shares one with England. We're looking to break a union with a country we can see from our upstairs windows. Why is Ireland relevant? It's over a sea?

7% deficit anyone? Oil and gas are becoming dirty words as we move towards greener economies.

No, the EU will not want to lose one of its biggest contributors and replace it with yet another state that needs propping up financially.

And no, Spain will not want to encourage Catalonia in thinking this is achievable.

What I don't get is as popular discourse seems to be "the world needs to work together, we need to be breaking down borders", why Scotland would want to contribute to ever more tribalism and micro breakaway states.

I don't get it either. Apparently we're outward looking and welcoming to people from all nations. And we're going to prove it by drawing a line underneath Berwick.

I can see why Scotland would want independence- but with Brexit being so divisive (I voted leave) I'm not sure if it would be seen as even more difficult to put into effect?

I also find it difficult to understand an oft repeated assertion that Brexit will be a shitshow and terrible economically (and I agree it's not going well) but Scotland leaving The Union would be absolutely fine and no problem at all.

morris is your post for me? Southern Ireland is only relevant as an example of the amount of time it took another country to achieve economic stability after achieving independence from the rest of the uk.

No my comment was to zsazsajuju who said I was bonkers for thinking we share a border with England.

It's not inevitable, but it's far more likely.

And frankly, given the shitshow that passes for politics in Westminster, I don't think anyone can argue that Scotland are better off on their own.

*aren't.

@Figmentofmyimagination Yes, and you only need to read comments under French newspapers online to get a sense of how many in the EU feel about the way in which Ireland achieved that economic independence by positioning itself as a kind of tax haven for the likes of Google and Amazon. So you get subsidised by other EU countries and then undercut them. Nice.

Has anyone seen the shitshow of the Edinburgh trams project? Or corruption in Aberdeen City Council? Why do we imagine our home grown representatives will be any different to those grown down there?

Has anyone seen the shitshow of the Edinburgh trams project

And the infections at the new QEUH
And the delays on Edinburgh's new Sick Kids
And the named person fiasco
And the problems with curriculum for excellence
And.....

But hey. The ambulances now have wording in Gaelic all over the areas where Gaelic was never spoken. THAT's the important stuff.

Just to point out that the Republic of Ireland (not "Southern", honestly!) was starting at a very different baseline to where Scotland would be. Also with talk from leading Brexiters about it taking 50 years for it to settle economically after Brexit, it probably doesn't feel too different!

What happens to the SNP if Yes wins? It's obviously a one-policy party and although it currently runs Scotland, albeit in a limited capacity, does anyone really think it's capable of running an Independent Scotland?

I suppose it doesn't matter. If the EU give them quick membership, all their laws will come from Brussels instead of Westminster. I always wondered why that was more palatable but, of course, was forgetting the anti-English sentiment that is prevalent.

I voted Yes in 2014, but am in two minds whether I would if there is to be a new referendum. In many ways I would love to see Scottish independence happen now more than ever. As an EU citizen in Scotland I think the whole Brexit-saga (especially the possibility of a no deal Brexit) is terrible, and I would be strongly in favour of an independent Scotland as part of the EU. At the same time I think that the practicalities of an independent Scotland in the EU are a hundred times more complex if England/rUK is out of the EU, not least because it would possibly require some kind of hard border, which I think would be economically, politically and socially undesirable.

As for the posters going on about replacing subjugation to Westminster with subjugation to the EU, to me it's very simple. It's about who decides what the other can do. Currently, the Scottish Government only has competencies in areas specifically devolved from Westminster (i.e. Westminster decides what areas Scotland can/cannot legislate in). The relation with the EU is the reverse: Westminster (and other national governments) decide which areas the EU gets to legislate in, everything else is reserved to the UK. Although Scotland would have to accept the EU competencies established over the past decade, going forward, the governing dynamic between Scotland/EU is not the same as the current Scotland/UK one.

Also, feminists beware. The SNP is hell bent on being seen as progressive. Their leadership won't answer questions about sex based rights, and their wunderkind Mhairi Black referred to feminists as cunts, with no consequences.

I'm genuinely concerned that an independent Scotland would rush to become the new Canada, and in a generation women could be compelled to eg wax mens balls (Yaniv case).

To many, this seems like a side issue, something to address later after independence has been achieved. To me it needs urgent addressing, right now.