To think that No Deal Brexit is the only option now

[Bearbehind]

I’m a staunch Remainer, I think Brexit is absolute madness but I can’t see any way out of this mess except No Deal now - the division is too great and views are too entrenched

Leavers insist it will all be fine so the
only option is to do it and see what happens

The way I see it, anything less will just lead to the uprise of the Brexit Party until we ‘leave properly’ anyway.

We might as well just jump of the cliff now. If it’s all rosey then great.

If it’s not at least we can start to repair the damage sooner rather than later

I think some sort of Norway plus deal, or even TM's deal would be a fairer and better outcome, given that half the country wants remain and half wants to commit financial suicide No Deal.

But that’s just what you want to happen, not what is remotely likely to happen

We could have gone down that route 3 years ago but didn’t

They'll remove the Irish backstop. If what today's papers are reporting is true, we are ready to sign up to a UK-US trade deal that will take 9-12 months and which will not include the NHS.

It isn't true. What is true is that the US have made it very clear that if the backstop goes, so does their trade agreement. Don't underestimate the level of soft power Ireland has in the US. There is a reason Paul Ryan pretends to give a shit about hurling. The very (Irish) republican Irish American lobby holds significant sway. Anything that fucks the GFA, will severely hinder British interests in the US.

the best bet at this stage is Parliament getting in the way of No Deal?

The best bet is Parliament legislating to prevent us leaving without a deal. This is possible, but it's questionable whether there is a stable majority in the House of Commons to see it through.

Your government wont be happy till it turns into north korea :(

I don’t remember all the details of it but I understand that the best bet at this stage is Parliament getting in the way of No Deal?

But that’s only a short term fix and is likely to actually increase support for Leave and the Brexit Party

bearbehind yes, for sure

FFS, you don't destroy an entire country just to shut up a bunch of ignorant, bigoted people chasing power.

That's tyranny, not democracy.

And you're deluded if you think the racist Farage and his ilk will quietly fade rather than try to strengthen their grip on power.

Apathy is not the answer.

They remind me of people who go orienteering and argue that 'This way feels like south' when the compass is pointing in the other direction.

And in this case they're all herding us over cliffs.

I think it's akin to dangling over the edge of a cliff and holding on by your fingertips. It's exhausting and painful and there are no realistic options to get out of the situation so it must feel a bit tempting to just fall and get through the pain and move on, even if there's a risk of spending the next 20 years in a wheelchair. Because there doesn't seem to be a way out and the anticipation feels unbearable. But the reality will be worse.

minibroncs your post contains 2 contradictory points IMO

I don’t for a second think Farage and the Brexit party will go away - that is exactly why I think we need to no deal now, wipe them out, and start to rebuild from the mess

likely to actually increase support for Leave and the Brexit Party

I'm not sure that this is a bad thing. It will split the right wing vote, and will most likely let in a Labour-led coalition. Unless the Tories try to outdo Farage and shift to no-deal brexit as their policy, in which case they will lose the votes of softer leavers. Johnson is caught in a political pincer.

I'm not sure that this is a bad thing. It will split the right wing vote, and will most likely let in a Labour-led coalition.

I think a Tory led Brexit Party coalition is more likely

Until Corbyn goes, Labour are unelectable

That's what you want, OP - to give up. Because it's easier. The cliff a analogy is a good one.

It's not contradictory. I'm pointing out it's fucked up to advocate for destroying a country because you think it will shut someone up, and also that it won't shut them up anyway - irrespective of whether or not you think it's acceptable to destroy a country in pursuit of that goal.

By the way the idea that the economic hardship that will follow a no-deal brexit (or any brexit in my opinion) will destroy Farage and the right in disingenuous in my opinion. Historically right-wing politics feeds off hardship and a Barratt of betrayal and victimhood.

That's what you want, OP - to give up. Because it's easier. The cliff a analogy is a good one.

No it’s not, I’m just pointing out that saying you want a Norway type deal is pointless because it’s not going to happen

You can want to avoid no deal all you like but unless there’s actually a feasible alternative, your wants are worth nothing

the best bet at this stage is Parliament getting in the way of No Deal?

The best bet is that MPs remember that have only one duty in Parliament, and that is that at all times they are to act in the best interests of their constituents and of the country as a whole.

This occasionally puts them at odds with a sizable proportion of the population, and even sometimes at odds with the majority of the population, but that's how a representative democracy works. If the population doesn't agree with the MPs, then they are voted out at the next election.

Speaking of which, even if a General Election results in a Conservative/Brexit Party coalition, the UK is still no further down the road to resolving the Brexit issue.

• There is no form of Brexit that will not cause huge damage to the UK, socially, politically and economically.
• The EU cannot change its rules to accommodate a country that is leaving the Union and give it an advantage over member countries.
• Whatever the UK votes for, it is the GFA, an international treaty, that binds the UK and the RoI together. Unless the RoI votes to leave the EU and join a CU/SM with the UK (which it is never going to do) then the UK is bound by the GFA to remain in the same CU/SM as Ireland.

you think it will shut someone up, and also that it won't shut them up anyway

Your missing the point

The Brexit party won’t shut up if we don’t leave ‘properly’

If we leave with no deal the Brexit party’s reason for existence is gone do they’ll disappear

Then we get to see what the actual consequences are and deal with them

If we don’t ‘leave properly’ the Brexit Party are likely to get into a coalition with the Tories and force no deal further down the line

You can want to avoid no deal all you like but unless there’s actually a feasible alternative, your wants are worth nothing

What a shitty thing to say about destroying people's lives.

You're either stupid, or deliberately goady.

Theres nothing fundamentally impossible about a different type of deal. And your idea that we should just roll over and start agreeing with no deal because it makes life easier for BJ (and you dont like all this negativity and division) is just naive. The negativity and division is here to stay.

No it’s not mini - it’s reality.

Unless there’s a viable alternative, you can want to avoid it all you like but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s inevitable.

Yeh, ok, mate. Question answered.

The negativity and division is here to stay.

Which is exactly why I think no deal is inevitable

The divisions will never heal until one side is proved right and the other wrong

Leavers are never going to accept that leaving is going to be anything other than fabulous

If no deal is a success then Remainers will be the ones who were wrong

If it’s not, we can start to pick up the pieces

Ok mini if you think I’m stupid, what’s your alternative proposal - what do you think can be done to avoid no deal and move on?

.... as far as I can see (French & German Press from today) the EU is not giving in.

But Boris could sell NI to Donald, he has some cash after he's not buying Greenland AND the Backstop is removed in one sweeping action!!