To think that No Deal Brexit is the only option now

[Bearbehind]

I’m a staunch Remainer, I think Brexit is absolute madness but I can’t see any way out of this mess except No Deal now - the division is too great and views are too entrenched

Leavers insist it will all be fine so the
only option is to do it and see what happens

The way I see it, anything less will just lead to the uprise of the Brexit Party until we ‘leave properly’ anyway.

We might as well just jump of the cliff now. If it’s all rosey then great.

If it’s not at least we can start to repair the damage sooner rather than later

I think a deal will be reached. I think the EU will alter the backstop in some small way and get put back to parliament where it will pass.

It's very remotely possible that they will reword the political declaration in some way so Boris can sell it as a great victory over the EU and try to get it through parliament. Merkel and Macron were clear on the need to respect the GFA and the single market so the backstop has to stay even if it's repackaged and sold as something else. The other alternative is a border in the Irish Sea. But will the hardline Brexiters and DUP go for these alterations...they have already stated that they will not so that leaves us firmly back with no deal.

but they can fuck off, quite frankly

Yep. This. I will never support leaving and will not pull together with anyone to support them to deliver something I fundamentally disagree with and that I know will damage this country.

The people who will be most affected by leaving are the people who mostly voted for it (obv not the JRM ilk) but frankly they've made their beds and they can lie in them and starve. I don't care.

To be fair I think a large proportion of Leavers didn't understand what it would mean, they saw the ridiculous claims being banded about by Farage et all and believed them.

The Brexit idiots have already started.

One acquaintance has started tagging people who supported remain with inane “it will be your fault if it goes wrong” style posts.

Sheer unadulterated thickery abounds.

I might reluctantly be persuaded to accept a well-planned, orderly Brexit, but what is currently happening is a total calamity which is being overseen by a group of utter incompetents.

But a ‘well planned and orderly Brexit’ isn’t on offer and no one seems to be able to come up with anything other than no deal which is more likely to happen

BJ is now talking about the fact a deal isn’t a given anymore - I do think his plan is to avoid it this time - but then what?

He won’t be saying it’s because it’s too damaging ie, the truth, it’ll be because of the nasty EU which will only increase support for no deal in the future

There will be a GE, Boris will get rid of the DUP, repackage Theresa May's deal and get it passed, backstop and all.

BJ is now talking about the fact a deal isn’t a given anymore

Nothing has materially changed since Johnson was boasting that no deal was a million to one shot.

He’s gaslighting.

Don’t worry guys Boris has said:

“I swam round that rock this morning. From here you cannot tell there is a gigantic hole in that rock. There is a way through,” he said.
“My point to the EU is that there is a way through, but you can’t find the way through if you just sit on the beach.”

So I think he’s got all in hand.

aravis

AravisTarkheena

That's wonderful. I now feel greatly reassured that it's all going swimmingly.

Compare the two possible scenarios:

1. Leave with no deal: Divisions won't go away, plus economic calamity.
2. Revoke article 50, potentially with referendum and / or GE beforehand: Divisions won't go away, but no economic calamity.

I know which one I'd go for. To say we're divided therefore we need to commit an act of massive self harm doesn't make sense to me, it's not going to change the fact that we're divided. If anything, we need to step on the breaks, take a deep breath and start talking.

Now Boris has put his foot down and is calling their bluff, I think the EU will change the deal and it’ll be rushed through

The Tory members who elected Johnson don't give a damn about keeping N.I. as part of the union. Something like 65% said that Brexit was more important. They're his base.

N.I. voted Remain. Demographically, the numbers who want a united Ireland will continue to increase. Only Arlene & Co (and H.M. the Queen?) will shed any tears. And if he delivers Brexit, he'll win a GE and won't need them any more.

No need for a backstop. No problems with getting a US deal through Congress. Corbyn, as we all know, has campaigned for a united Ireland his whole career. An Irish Sea border will be the thin end of the wedge but it can be dressed up as a solution not as the beginning of an inevitable process.

And the key to Johnson getting it through Parliament will be the 20 or so Labour Leavers, whose numbers may well increase if Corbyn continues to turn a blind eye and a complicit thumbs up to their breaking the Whip. Remember that Johnson has neutralised the bulk of the ERG by putting them in his cabinet.

At least, that's my guess. But it won't all be over and people can get on with their lives, as Leavers think. The WA was the easy bit. There will be years and years of trade negotiations to come. And it will take a very long time before we recover from the damage already done. If we ever do.

Now Boris has put his foot down and is calling their bluff, I think the EU will change the deal and it’ll be rushed through

Can I have whatever it is you’re drinking?

I typed too fast earlier because blaming the EU for 0 hour contracts really annoyed me. Yes, those zero hour contracts existed before the Tories came to power in 2010, but I am squarely blaming them for creating the conditions in which precarious employment rose quite dramatically. There are several million people on zero hour contracts nowadays. The main point I was making was that the resentment a previous poster was directing at the EU should be directed at the UK's own sovereign government.

I was also making my point in a civil manner. I wish leavers would do the same.

But choice 2 isn’t on offer catlady

I’d love it to be - I very much agree that if half the population are going to be unhappy if much rather it was the half who wanted to do the damage

Now Boris has put his foot down and is calling their bluff, I think the EU will change the deal and it’ll be rushed through

Utter delusion.

• The EU cannot change its rules to accommodate a country that is leaving the Union and give it an advantage over member countries.

• It is the GFA, an international treaty, that binds the UK and the RoI together. Unless the RoI votes to leave the EU and join a CU/SM with the UK (which it is never going to do) then the UK is bound by the GFA to remain in the same CU/SM as Ireland.

Why would the EU change anything? What absolute dopefuckery are you on that you think the EU will bow down to anything bojo wants? Seriously have a word with yourself.

Revoke is still a possibility right up to the day that the UK leaves.

It is not being offered by Johnson, who has staked his reputation on leaving on 31st Oct, 'do or die,' but he isn't there yet.

At the end of the day, we’re a loss to them. Of course they’d rather change the deal than have us ‘crash out’

At the end of the day, we’re a loss to them.

This sounds a lot like a they need us more than we need them argument...

You are deluded penny. They may be annoyed, it's a nuisance they don't need but they won't sacrifice the single market for the sake of a deal with the UK.

Now Boris has put his foot down and is calling their bluff, I think the EU will change the deal and it’ll be rushed through

This is exactly what I’m talking about - completely and utterly detached from reality

This
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-merkel-macron-brexit-irish-backstop-paris-eu-a9075186.html%3famp

A loss Gas. Yis are like a dose of the clap as far as the EU are concerned right now.