To think that No Deal Brexit is the only option now

[Bearbehind]

I’m a staunch Remainer, I think Brexit is absolute madness but I can’t see any way out of this mess except No Deal now - the division is too great and views are too entrenched

Leavers insist it will all be fine so the
only option is to do it and see what happens

The way I see it, anything less will just lead to the uprise of the Brexit Party until we ‘leave properly’ anyway.

We might as well just jump of the cliff now. If it’s all rosey then great.

If it’s not at least we can start to repair the damage sooner rather than later

Are you suggesting a hard border as an interim measure?

Just a quick post as am at work now but Absolutely not in answer to above. The interim measures I am talking about are checks away from the border, just to clear that up.

Are you suggesting a hard border as an interim measure?

Absolutely not in answer to above. The interim measures I am talking about are checks away from the border, just to clear that up.

Whether facilities are built to conduct the checks at the border, or are built 5km away in a field (presumably there would be two sets, one set on each side of the border) these still represent a hinderance to the free flow of goods and represent a symbol of divisions returning to the island.

Meanwhile the predicted right-wing coup edges closer to attaining its goal. Folks - you've been conned. You are not taking back control (not that the UK ever lost control). Johnson is now going to prevent the democratically elected Parliament from taking control. When will the state of emergency be declared - this afternoon, 14th September, or 31st October?

Karen Wheeler is the British customs agency’s senior official in charge of post-Brexit border planning.

She quit in early June.

She also said: the UK would need a customs union with the EU, plus something that looked like a single market, to have completely free movement of goods across the border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

Repairing the damage is going to take more than ordering people to "move on".

Repairing the damage is going to take more than ordering people to "move on".

bellini you continually bringing things like this up when it’s not even part of the current discussion is petulant and quite bizarre

What I actually said was

I’d happily support an NI only solution if it would actually work, but it won’t

So move on and support something that might or accept we need to no deal and repair

That’s hardly ‘ordering you to move on’

That's right, I'm the bad guy you should be obsessively focusing on 😂😂😂

I’m really not focusing on you at all, just responding to your endless sniping comments to me

Bear I don't want any of this. I'm a Remainer. I'm just trying to guess what Johnson is planning to do. Based on his personality and Cummings' past history, I think that ditching NI is the simplest and quickest way out of a problem that has no solutions because it's squaring a circle.

'WTO rules? Fuck WTO rules'. I can just hear him saying it. They'll change the rules for us, GREAT Britain, Rule Britannia, last night of the Proms. We're the exception to the rules.

Johnson's housemaster at Eton wrote a brilliant comment on his report about his tendency to believe that normal standards of behaviour and social responsibility didn't apply to him. I think he was sulking because he hadn't been made Head of House.

If he wants a deal, then I think he's got the chutzpah to get one ditching NI through the Commons. If he wants No Deal, then what he's done today makes it v difficult to stop. Either way, I don't think any other politician in my lifetime would have had the nerve. We're in uncharted territory here.

And I'm not sure who he's talking to. Is he still trying to soften up the EU for a new WA, or is this election-speak to win back the Brexit Party defectors?

I do wonder if suspending parliament is all part of BJs cunning plan to actually avoid no deal

Goodness knows how it will play out but stranger things have happened

I do wonder if suspending parliament is all part of BJs cunning plan to actually avoid no deal

Announcing it now should give Parliament enough time to get its shit together - and Johnson can play the “nasty Parliament has tied my hands” card.

That’s kind of where I am with it continuity

But where does that end - I still don’t see how it makes no deal go away entirely because it will just harden the resolve of those who want it

There is no softening of EU position - the Brexiteers are hearing what they want to hear.
As for the animosity towards the Irish government, well I've been in Ireland this summer and people have moved on from Brexit trauma. Ireland is booming with EU and US investment, international companies are relocating there from the UK (including Rees Mogg's!) and business is good.
Their only concern is for the Good Friday Agreement on an open border which it seems the Tories want to ditch which is shameful.
The UK won't get a last minute deal because the easiest deal in history is a myth. But rule Britannia and bring on the blue passports while the economy tanks and medicines run short. [Hmm]

Ireland seem to be far more ready for brexshit than britain.

But where does that end - I still don’t see how it makes no deal go away entirely because it will just harden the resolve of those who want it

Ups the ante on a GE I think? EU would give an extension for a GE. Then could end up with Tory/BXP coalition, depending on how the vote splits (could be that BXP win very few seats if its support is spread too thin though).

CraicGalore - where has any Tory said they want to ditch the GFA?

The idea that we were told it was the easiest deal in history has nothing at all to do with this type of deal.
People very confeniently forget that the deal being talked about in 2016 was a trade deal because we all thought we could broker a trade deal and talk about other implications at the same time.

Then the EU said no they needed a WA first and wouldn't discuss trade at all until the WA had been agreed. If TM had put her foot down then and refused we might have been in a very different place. The back stop would never have needed to be discussed as we would have known what our trade deal was going to be.

The idea that we didn't vote for no deal is spurious too as no one imagined having to have a WA at all in the first place. We voted in or out. Parliament agreed to abide by the result of the vote. Parliament agreed to A50 giving us 2 years to leave. Parliament refused to agree TM's WA. Parliament couldn't agree what they did want.
Parliament can't just say we don't want no deal. They have to come up with an answer baring in mind what they have already agreed above.

Wait around long enough and you will get the No Deal you crave. But it won't come easily.

There's now a petition against suspending parliament:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157

I've signed it - not sure what else I can do but feel I have to do something.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-49493632

Parliament to be suspended

Where has any Tory said they want to ditch the GFA?

Owen Patterson, Daniel Hannon. The entire DUP who keep the Tories in government and the Tories who speak at DUP events such as Rees-Mogg. Just for starters.

EU said no they needed a WA first and wouldn't discuss trade at all until the WA had been agreed.

Of course the EU has been unwilling to discuss the future relationship until the present relationship comes to an end in an orderly fashion through a WA. On top of which, the EU cannot legally discuss the future trading relationship with a current member until that member country has left.

Where has any Tory said they want to ditch the GFA?

Gove is on record as hating it, going back years.

On top of which, the EU cannot legally discuss the future trading relationship with a current member until that member country has left

A bit like the EU cannot legally bail out another country, as stated in the Maastricht Treaty (except when you are Greece apparently).

There any many in the Tory party who either dislike or don't understand aspects of the GFA, notably Theresa Villiers who was a Secretary of State for NI under Cameron and an arch Brexiteer.

This is what she said on Sky: ""There is no reason why we have to change our border arrangements in the event of a Brexit, because they've been broadly consistent in the 100 years since the creation of Ireland as a separate state."

Absolute nonsense. The (open) border arrangements now in place are as a direct result of the Good Friday Agreement. To say otherwise is an insult to anyone who lost family during the Troubles on any side. The manned British Army posts have quickly been forgotten clearly or just were not witnessed by the elite in Westminster.

"There is no reason why we have to change our border arrangements in the event of a Brexit, because they've been broadly consistent in the 100 years since the creation of Ireland as a separate state."

That is genuinely shocking ignorance. I know I should be over being shocked these days, but wow.

Thanks Queen