To think that No Deal Brexit is the only option now

[Bearbehind]

I’m a staunch Remainer, I think Brexit is absolute madness but I can’t see any way out of this mess except No Deal now - the division is too great and views are too entrenched

Leavers insist it will all be fine so the
only option is to do it and see what happens

The way I see it, anything less will just lead to the uprise of the Brexit Party until we ‘leave properly’ anyway.

We might as well just jump of the cliff now. If it’s all rosey then great.

If it’s not at least we can start to repair the damage sooner rather than later

I am not "pinning hopes". As I have told you several times. I am just disagreeing with you and am considering other options.
Weird now.

How would Corbyn standing down stop no deal?

Bear - I think it'd be much easier to get an Irish Sea border through the Commons and it would be permanent, not dependent on a solution to be found on the backstop. We wouldn't need a backstop. I don't think any Leaver would buy the idea of the whole of the UK in the backstop, but all but the most committed unionists would accept different arrangements for NI. They already have them, over passports etc.

If there's a majority for it in NI, that would be half the battle. And I think there is? It's only Arlene and the Unionists who'd object and they're not flavour of the month for a variety of reasons. As far as the rest of the UK is concerned, people can get remarkably pragmatic when faced with a stark choice. No NI or No Deal. And total unification is a way down the road.

Starmer today is reported as saying that Labour is a Remain Party. Again. Waiting for Barry Gardiner to pop up and correct him. While Corbyn is the leader, he and his Lexiter cronies running the show will continue be obstructive by dragging their feet and obfuscating.

If push came to shove, they'd let No Deal go ahead if the alternative was a second ref. There's some Leninist theory about chaos being the route to power. Not a disaster but 'a revolutionary opportunity'. Milne, Murray, Fisher etc are all frustrated Citizen Smith's under the public school exterior.

How would Corbyn standing down stop no deal?

Without Corbyn Labour could stand on a Remain ticket

I think it'd be much easier to get an Irish Sea border through the Commons and it would be permanent, not dependent on a solution to be found on the backstop. We wouldn't need a backstop.

But how does that keep the Tories in power - which is all they care about?

What were people saying about Farage et al disappearing?

From the Guardian The Brexit party may be prepared to work with the Conservatives through a “non-aggression pact” if the only way of achieving a “clean-break” Brexit was a general election, Nigel Farage has said.

He’s going nowhere unless it’s no deal

Scarily and sadly this piece is pretty much what I said upthread

And the opposition parties' meeting to stop Brexit? Does that not mean anything?

Stop No Deal, I mean.

To answer the poster up thread about the Irish sea border idea.
To the Scots it would be a dreadful proposition as it would give NI an unfair advantage from a trade point of view in that they would effectively be the only park of the UK still in the EU. Businesses would likely move to NI. It then gives the SNP a massive reason for independence which many more would support as it would appear the Tories have shafted the Scots and the union completely.

Does that not mean anything?

Not really no.

Anything that forbids something makes those who want it, want it more.

Unless Corbyn stands down and Labour run on a remain ticket then it’s a given Tory / BP coalition IMO

If Corbyn did stand down then it’s a numbers game - the equivalent of a Peoples vote really

I’d love that to happen but pinning my hopes on Corbyn doing the right thing does not fill me with confidence

Corbyn is a twat and it looks like they aren't going for a No Confidence vote first. Because he is. But if it comes down to it, we work with what we've got to stop No Deal.

we work with what we've got to stop No Deal.

And what have we got?

A weak attempt by Corbyn to prevent no deal which probably won’t even work but if it did it would make those who support it even more determined and hand the Tories / BP a GE on a plate

Corbyn sees this as a power grab - what he fails to understand is he is unelectable - he is the very reason the Labour Party cannot win a GE

I don’t think the choice is no deal or the WA, it’s no deal or Remain.

And there’s nothing on the horizon that makes remain a likelihood, hence it’s looking like no deal

Your a Tory. You see this through Tory eyes.

Your a Tory. You see this through Tory eyes.

That’s about as weak an argument as ‘we won you lost’

What does it even mean?

You only consider Tory fortune. Not Parliamentary anti no Deal tactic

*What were people saying about Farage et al disappearing?

From the Guardian The Brexit party may be prepared to work with the Conservatives through a “non-aggression pact” if the only way of achieving a “clean-break” Brexit was a general election, Nigel Farage has said.

He’s going nowhere unless it’s no deal*

But the point is he will not go even then!! No deal is the door to him entering government one day whilst we are completely out of the EU safety net. That's why I will always be opposed to no deal as a solution to Farage and his ilk. There is no appeasing them. Ever. No deal empowers them. Revoke may not crush them but it would be a severe set back for their strategy at least.

No, I’m considering the fact, that you’ve acknowledged yourself, which is that the Tories will do anything to avoid a Labour, particularly Corbyn, government

You’re not contradicting me, you’re contradicting yourself

And I’d only vote Tory again to make them own this mess if no deal happened

I’d vote for a pig in a frock if it promised Remain

I can’t see how avoiiding no deal now in favour of anything other than Remain is anything other than kicking the can down the road, all the time dragging the economy down due to uncertainty

You and I simply support different strategies. Why do you have to be so absolutist and uncompromising? What do you think that approach can achieve?

And I’d only vote Tory again to make them own this mess if no deal happened

So who would you vote for if Boris called an election before 31st Oct?

You and I simply support different strategies. Why do you have to be so absolutist and uncompromising? What do you think that approach can achieve?

Plenty more than being wishy washy about things that can’t happen for practical reasons

I’d happily support an NI only solution if it would actually work, but it won’t

So move on and support something that might or accept we need to no deal and repair

So who would you vote for if Boris called an election before 31st Oct?

I don’t think it’s possible for an election to happen before then.

Afterwards it would depend

If no deal hadn’t happened and Labour ran on Remain then them.

If no deal had happened then Tory so they can deal with the fall out

Double I think Johnson has pretty much given up on Scotland. He's appointed an Englishman as Scottish Secretary and undermined the Scottish Tory Party.

Bear Getting Brexit through with a deal/WA means Johnson avoids a No Deal crash-out and carrying the can for the chaos it will cause. He can get on with his domestic agenda using the money set aside for a No Deal emergency to butter up the electorate and be the bestest PM ever. Bigly.

It's only the first hurdle and it won't be plain sailing negotiating the trade deal, but he'll have cleared it and it's still a LOT better than the alternative, where we bankrupt ourselves and there's civil unrest.