A MIL and a dog one......

[MilDog]

I know how much MN like to MIL bash and how divided the opinion on DDogs can be, so I'm steeling myself.....

Background on MIL:
Absolutely lovely woman who I love to bits and she's like a second mum to me.

I can count on 1 hand the number of disagreements we've had over the 20 odd years DH and I have been together. But, for all we get on, we are different personalities and have very different views on life.

Her only downside is that she can be very opinionated and the kind of person who doesn't take well to people disagreeing with her opinion. If I'm brutally honest, the reason there have probably been so few disagreements is because DH and I know when to pick our battles.

Background on DDog:
DDog is a year old and an absolute baby. I am not kidding on this, every morning he needs a cuddle when we get up before breakfast.

He is a big softie and I've seen him stand there and do nothing when other dogs have been snarling and snapping at him. That said, he is a heavy set muscular breed and weighing in at almost 30kg he could do serious damage to another dog or person if he chose to.

DC is 12 and they are best mates. DDog takes more notice of DC than me or DH, he literally has him at a word.

The situation:
A few weeks ago I was out walking DDog and a child (maybe 9/10?) was riding a scooter on the pavement towards us. Despite me having DDog on a short leash walking at heel and trying to keep us both to one side of the pavement, the child rode flat out into us hitting DDog, running over his foot making DDog yelp (I'm fairly sure it was deliberate, no reason otherwise as there was plenty of room and he could've slowed down to pass us).

No drama, but I did have a word with the child and told him to be a bit more careful in future.

A couple of days later same child went to do the same thing again, except this time DDog saw him coming and immediately started growling and snarling at him. I asked the child to stay back until we had passed as clearly DDog was frightened but the child ignored me, got off his scooter, walked straight towards us and put his hands out to try and stroke DDog, who at this point was still snarling and growling and baring his teeth!!

I ended up walking into the road to move DDog away from the situation.

It upset me because as I said, he's usually such a big softie especially with children and he's been around other children since the first incident and hadn't reacted at all. I contacted our dog walker (who is a behaviourist) and had a chat with her, she re-assured me it was a pure fear response but still we've arranged for her to do some sessions with me and DDog to try and get him over this fear and help me distract him and keep him calm if we are ever in a similar situation.

The MIL/DDog problem:
DH and I are supposed to be going to an event this weekend that means we'll be out from around 6pm to 11.30pm (but only 20 minutes from home). DC is quite happy to stay home (lots of family and friends within 10 minutes of our house if needed in an emergency), we've arranged to have him a takeaway delivered from our local place (where the owners know him and us) and dog walker is coming to take DDog out between 7pm and 8pm, after which DDog will do his usually sleep on the sofa and refuse to move.

But MIL has decided that DDog can no longer be trusted around DC and is coming round to sit with him.

Now, normally I couldn't get too worked up over this and this is a perfect example of where I would usually smile and nod and just let her crack on.

However, she is bringing DN with her as she is babysitting for the night. DN is younger than DC and a bit of a handful and DC has said he doesn't want DN here. I think he feels like his "grown up evening" is being ruined and he's a bit gutted.

My second issue with is that DN is not too keen on DDog, not full on fear but nervous because of DDogs size and having not been around dogs very much. DDog can get very boisterous when we have visitors (think of a toddler who's been fed 1kg of sweets) so he goes in his crate - I don't really want him locked in his crate most of the evening while DH and I aren't here!!

My AIBU dilemma:

1. Do DH and I put our foot down and tell MIL she is not to come round with DN, which will probably cause an unholy row and potentially could make life difficult for a while.

2. Smile and let her crack on to keep the peace - and also maybe I am BU leaving DC13 alone with DDog??

For full disclosure, we didn't actually tell MIL about our plans, no reason other that it just hasn't come up but she asked DC about it and it's him she's told she's coming round - she had t actually said anything to us (which I suspect is because she knows we'll push back....,)

What the hell do we do and are DH and I BU????

@NoSauce
This side of him? Do fuck off, the dog was hurt and the same person tried again, a growl is a warning not aggression. Jesus the twats on here, if you know nothing about dog behaviour don’t comment.

I wouldn't feel happy leaving my DS alone with dog especially now it's had this fright and has shown another side to it's nature. Any move DS made, if dog I'd dozing on the sofa I'd be thinking could trigger dog about this incident.
I wouldn't risk it.

I’m usually on these threads as a dislike of dogs that aren’t taught how to behave. I’d rather dogs ignored me.
That said, your dog was perfectly reasonable, you need to be more assertive with your MIL and say that you make the decisions around your children and if she must pop in, it’s unaccompanied.
And the child on the scooter at 9/10 will probably come to a well-deserved bad end. Hopefully not involving hurting another dog.

We have an Akita/collie x She's 27kg and a fairly large dog, easily twice the size of a staffie. We get a 50:50 response to her when walking her too 😁

The dog hasn’t bitten anyone yet.
He has been snarling, growling and snapping though. Why isn’t that enough of a warning?

He growled at a child who had previously hurt him in exactly the same specific situation. He bared his teeth when the child did not react to his first warning. He didn’t snap, though.

The dog isn’t going to be in that situation at home with a loved family member.

Dogs are really bad at generalising, in fact.

I would ask MIL not to come over, but agree with her she’ll call to check on him about 9pm, or whatever. And of course he can call her if he needs to.

YANBU
Dogs have few ways to communicate. Growling is one way they can tell you they are not comfortable in a situation. You have to listen to that.
You know that following being deliberately hurt by a child, your dog is nervous/concerned when he is put in that same situation and so he uses what ‘language’ he has to indicate concern/fear.
You have sensibly consulted a behaviourist and are working on the problem. To do this effectively you have to avoid putting your dog into situations where he experiences the same fear, particularly if you are not there to monitor the situation and manage it so that it is a positive experience for your dog.

It sounds like your DN might be a little too similar in age and bouncy-ness to the child who scared your dog. I would want to supervise that interaction and certainly wouldn’t want that being supervised by someone who has not spoken to and understood the advice of your behaviourist and who already thinks the dog cannot be trusted. The worse case scenario is that it sets your dog’s behaviour back further.
I like the compromise of allowing her to ‘pop in’ but without DN.
Good luck OP.

MN is so weird. People are outraged when a dog comes over wagging its tail and sniffing at their children in the park and hundreds of other posters agree, some of them saying that all dogs should be muzzled waaah waaah but then you get a large dog that could do damage in the OPs words that snarled, growled and bore its teeth at a child and everyone is fine with that.

Bonkers.

It doesn’t matter what caused the dog to behave like this, the fact that he did is what matters.

It absolutely does matter! And a behaviourist has agreed. I simply think you don’t understand dog behaviour.

OP, please explain to your MIL that bringing herself and DN round is likely to make everyone more anxious, including the dog, and that you’ve taken advice from a behaviourist so you’re confident all is well with your plan.

I wonder if the OP said the breed was a Greyhound, whether it would get the same response as if it was an American Bulldog.. both 30kg+.

The fact the OP hasn’t said what the breed is is worrying.

@NoSauce the fact that the dog growled is a good thing. It means it has enough self control to warn that he/she is uncomfortable with the situation and would like something to be done. A growling dog is a controlled dog. Its the dogs that bite without growling that are the danger.

@nosauce
So you are ok with kids- he’s 12- abusing dogs as they please? Should the dog just take the abuse? A dog can’t say leave me alone, the growl is the warning.
Again you clearly no bugger all about dogs so stop commenting, you’re probably the hysterical type who runs across the street from anything bigger than a puppy.

I’ve had dogs all my life Bookworm. None of them have ever behaved in this way when in pain.

Do you think the many dogs destroyed every year for killing and maiming mostly children weren’t “loving big softies”? that their owners knew they had a propensity to be aggressive or that they were like the OP, confident in the fact that their dog was safe?

The people who are outraged by dogs coming up unattended/uninvited to other dogs or humans usually are either a) scared of dogs so it’s all frightening b) owners of dogs who are fear reactive I.e. scared but could react aggressively and are trying to manage that behaviour responsibly themselves so understand it’s bad dog manners and poor training to allow this to happen or c) just good dog owners who recognise the above poor dog manners/training.

You have to understand dog behaviour to work with them and to train and manage. The vast majority of owners with big powerful dogs train them well - they NEED to be bombproof because they are so large, unlike your average snappy chihuahua that gets away with it.

The ‘lovely family dogs’ who ‘just turned’ weren’t owned by those people. That’s the sad part. Those families didn’t see the warning signs or care enough to train properly to prevent it.

Cases of well socialised dogs just attacking out of the blue are so rare.

A couple of days later same child went to do the same thing again, except this time DDog saw him coming and immediately started growling and snarling at him. I asked the child to stay back until we had passed as clearly DDog was frightened but the child ignored me, got off his scooter, walked straight towards us and put his hands out to try and stroke DDog, who at this point was still snarling and growling and baring his teeth!!

You're right. Completely unacceptable behaviour. On the part of the clearly aggressive, poorly trained, and inadequately controlled child who not content with physically assaulting an animal with his scooter the previous day, returned for a repeat, and when thwarted in that attempt, continued to try and provoke an animal that is clearly smart enough to know trouble when it sees it, and to give it fair warning that trouble should walk right the fuck on by.

The dog on the other hand - nope, all seems good to me.

@NoSauce What breeds are and aren't acceptable in your opinion then?
Bare in mind Labradors and Greyhounds weigh over 30kg.

Only you know your dog, so if you trust DC at home alone with the dog then that’s fine and to be honest MIL or best friend it makes no difference, they don’t need to overrule your parenting decision. I would however just make sure the dog hasn’t been effected by this incident, not as a concern for you going out but in a more general, you may run into scooters while out and about, way. Maybe a couple trips to a behaviourist just to make sure the dog is okay and happy! I have a 50kilo dog who I adore and gets along brilliantly with my DD so I understand where you’re coming from!

I'd be telling a little fib to keep the peace along the lines dog going to spend time with dog walker and DS going to friends.

ffs with the dangerous dog shite.

If someone had run over your foot with a scooter and was threatening to do it again, you'd tell them to fuck off.

That's what the dog is doing. That is NOT dangerous.

So many idiots with so many opinions and so little knowledge.

I’d lie and tell MIL that you will crate the dog while you are out. Tell her not to visit as it’s your dc’s special grown up night and you will be disappointed if she ruins it.
Then just leave the dog out

We're doing all the things you've suggested @MuthaFunka61 thank you - DC knows if the dog starts getting too silly and hyper to crate him and there's a stash of dog treats handy so that DC just has to show the dog a treat and say "crate" and he goes straight in.

A few posters have hit the nail on the head especially @FarTooMuchWashing you're right, I'm more worried about DN being around the dog than am I am DC, not so much from a dog aggression POV more that dog is stupid and hyper around visitors and I can feasibly see a situation where DN get knocked over and hurt. But also if DN does show signs of fear I don't know how he would react to the dog or how the dog would react to him, there's always that part of me that thinks "what if" and if I'm honest I don't want the dog (or DN) put in that situation when I'm not around!

I've not said what breed @NoSauce for 2 reasons - partly because this post is already potentially outing if any of my family are on here but also the breed while known, is not common either so would definitely be outing.

Plus rightly or wrongly, people WILL make assumptions about him, they do as soon as they clap eyes on him. He's not a breed that's known for being dangerous though.

But you’ve NC OP. If people know what’s happened in RL they will know it’s you anyway. I’m guessing this breed has a bad press?

The only reason to what to know what breed it is, is desire for confirmation bias.

It doesn’t matter what the breed is to the dilemma! You’re no more at risk from a well-trained 30KG+ Rottweiler than a well-trained 30KG+ Labrador.