A MIL and a dog one......

[MilDog]

I know how much MN like to MIL bash and how divided the opinion on DDogs can be, so I'm steeling myself.....

Background on MIL:
Absolutely lovely woman who I love to bits and she's like a second mum to me.

I can count on 1 hand the number of disagreements we've had over the 20 odd years DH and I have been together. But, for all we get on, we are different personalities and have very different views on life.

Her only downside is that she can be very opinionated and the kind of person who doesn't take well to people disagreeing with her opinion. If I'm brutally honest, the reason there have probably been so few disagreements is because DH and I know when to pick our battles.

Background on DDog:
DDog is a year old and an absolute baby. I am not kidding on this, every morning he needs a cuddle when we get up before breakfast.

He is a big softie and I've seen him stand there and do nothing when other dogs have been snarling and snapping at him. That said, he is a heavy set muscular breed and weighing in at almost 30kg he could do serious damage to another dog or person if he chose to.

DC is 12 and they are best mates. DDog takes more notice of DC than me or DH, he literally has him at a word.

The situation:
A few weeks ago I was out walking DDog and a child (maybe 9/10?) was riding a scooter on the pavement towards us. Despite me having DDog on a short leash walking at heel and trying to keep us both to one side of the pavement, the child rode flat out into us hitting DDog, running over his foot making DDog yelp (I'm fairly sure it was deliberate, no reason otherwise as there was plenty of room and he could've slowed down to pass us).

No drama, but I did have a word with the child and told him to be a bit more careful in future.

A couple of days later same child went to do the same thing again, except this time DDog saw him coming and immediately started growling and snarling at him. I asked the child to stay back until we had passed as clearly DDog was frightened but the child ignored me, got off his scooter, walked straight towards us and put his hands out to try and stroke DDog, who at this point was still snarling and growling and baring his teeth!!

I ended up walking into the road to move DDog away from the situation.

It upset me because as I said, he's usually such a big softie especially with children and he's been around other children since the first incident and hadn't reacted at all. I contacted our dog walker (who is a behaviourist) and had a chat with her, she re-assured me it was a pure fear response but still we've arranged for her to do some sessions with me and DDog to try and get him over this fear and help me distract him and keep him calm if we are ever in a similar situation.

The MIL/DDog problem:
DH and I are supposed to be going to an event this weekend that means we'll be out from around 6pm to 11.30pm (but only 20 minutes from home). DC is quite happy to stay home (lots of family and friends within 10 minutes of our house if needed in an emergency), we've arranged to have him a takeaway delivered from our local place (where the owners know him and us) and dog walker is coming to take DDog out between 7pm and 8pm, after which DDog will do his usually sleep on the sofa and refuse to move.

But MIL has decided that DDog can no longer be trusted around DC and is coming round to sit with him.

Now, normally I couldn't get too worked up over this and this is a perfect example of where I would usually smile and nod and just let her crack on.

However, she is bringing DN with her as she is babysitting for the night. DN is younger than DC and a bit of a handful and DC has said he doesn't want DN here. I think he feels like his "grown up evening" is being ruined and he's a bit gutted.

My second issue with is that DN is not too keen on DDog, not full on fear but nervous because of DDogs size and having not been around dogs very much. DDog can get very boisterous when we have visitors (think of a toddler who's been fed 1kg of sweets) so he goes in his crate - I don't really want him locked in his crate most of the evening while DH and I aren't here!!

My AIBU dilemma:

1. Do DH and I put our foot down and tell MIL she is not to come round with DN, which will probably cause an unholy row and potentially could make life difficult for a while.

2. Smile and let her crack on to keep the peace - and also maybe I am BU leaving DC13 alone with DDog??

For full disclosure, we didn't actually tell MIL about our plans, no reason other that it just hasn't come up but she asked DC about it and it's him she's told she's coming round - she had t actually said anything to us (which I suspect is because she knows we'll push back....,)

What the hell do we do and are DH and I BU????

I'm not saying EVERY dog is able to overcome fear

That is exactly what you have been saying!!

You have never met OPs dog but seem totally confident that it is fearful aggressive and can be cured.

You. Do. Not. Know. That.

Not all fearful dogs are fixable.

Fucksandflowers I did say not all, but most dogs, in my experience, are able to overcome fear. Any dog owner who tries to help their dogs to the best of their ability are fab dog owners

And again, it was never my intention to insult or offend anyone

I contacted our dog walker (who is a behaviourist) and had a chat with her, she re-assured me it was a pure fear response but still we've arranged for her to do some sessions with me and DDog to try and get him over this fear and help me distract him and keep him calm if we are ever in a similar situation.

The OP said fear actually, I went on her word.

Look, I completely agree some dogs have big issues that aren’t fixable, DESPITE having behaviourists and committed owners who put in the hours.

I also think many, many owners - perhaps the vast majority - just put up with the ‘quirks’ their dog’s have about barking at men in hats, or being reactive towards particular dogs or whatever. And then sadly a lot of those dogs end up in rescue and the problems are compounded.

But that isn’t the issue here. This is a young dog that’s had a bad experience and reacted through fear, and its owner has already sorted a behaviourist to work with them. There’s no reason whatsoever to think IN THIS CASE that the dog is dangerous.

NoSquirrels why do you think that your opinions are the only ones that are correct and that anyone who thinks differently is either thick or on the wind up?

I guess I think my opinion is more correct than yours IN THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE because you keep bringing your arguments back to unrelated situations and scenarios that don’t apply.

I fully agree SOME dogs have deep-seated issues. I don’t agree THIS dog should be assumed to be one of them.

fucks

The dog had ONE scary incident. It is very likely it will overcome it if it wasn't previously a nervous dog.

If you have a dog with a history of trauma or if it is generally nervous, was weaned too early etc then of course it will be harder to overcome.

No one is having a go at you.

I have a fearful dog too and it is hard.

I haven't read 12 pages, but has anyone suggested finding the little shit who ran over the dog's paw and then tried to do the same again, tracking down his parents and telling them that their little darling is a thug who abuses animals? I don't even like dogs and even I can see that if this kid does that again to the wrong dog he will be harmed and the poor dog might have to be put down?

Can someone else look after the dog for the night whilst you (e.g. if u paid the dog Walker or a trusted friend to have said dd that sounds so weird -they dd bit because its a dog lololol) that dd would be happy to spend the night with? That said mil is being a bit ridiculous. Dd did nothing wrong. The lil boy did. I cant abide cruelty to animals. Even if the boy was small he was the 1 who hurt the dog. Dogs can't communicate so of course the dog will snap and growl out of fear it's instinctive & self protection. It's a dog. It's not its fault.

I always teach my boy to ask before touching dogs . He has adhd and is a 'handful ' but generally a good boy. Some dogs are rescued. They don't have a say in how humans treat them . I think sometimes it's the humans that should be shot no matter how much I think in this case he was being a silly little boy (& shouldn't be shot obvs!) . But people don't respect nature.

Dogs are full of fear if they can't trust their family to provide adequate discipline and exercise and food.
This dog has been turned into a baby by his family ... instead of them being pack leaders who can give him a safe space to be a contented dog.
Love comes after discipline and good behaviour .
Vet nurse gill

The OP says he was “going to do it again” on the scooter, which caused the dog to react, then the kid got off the scooter

Was "the kid" going to do it again? Do we (or the OP) know that?

Whatever "it" was.
Which seems to be deliberately running over DDog's paw.

So why did "the kid" get off the scooter and put his hands out to try and stroke DDog?

DDog: the absolute baby/softie.

Truly, might "the kid" have been regretful and trying to make amends?

And if, after one incident (not two) DDog was "growling and snarling" when he saw a child on a scooter, and continued after the child got off the scooter and, according to the OP, apparently intended to pat/stroke DDog (as I've said in a previous post, a stupid thing to do, but children need educating so his motives may have been genuinely decent) is DDog all that safe?

When after one incident he was growling and snarling at a child who might have been, albeit clumsily, trying to be nice to him?

I wouldn't want the "big softie" near my children.

LaMarschallin - regardless of whether the child was sorry or not (and may very well have been) he should have stopped when the OP told him to.

If he can't follow that instruction, he really shouldn't be left alone because who knows what other danger he might put himself in because he can't/won't listen.

"instead of them being pack leaders"

Pack theory is nonsense and I really hope that if you're actually a nurse you know that.

LaMarschallin
You know growling is normal dog communication, right? I don't know why people don't get this. What do you expect? for the dog to just turn and walk away? That's often the sign of a dog that has little confidence. As long as the dog is not resource guarding to excess, randomly growling etc etc, growling is just their way of saying "don't do that."

It's so sad that there must be so many dogs in shelters because people think they are aggressive because the dog growled.

Do some research ffs.

It's the weekend. I wonder what the OP decided to do.

LaMarsh blimey - who bloody knows what was going through the child’s mind when he approached a growling dog baring its teeth at him with his hands outstretched, despite the owner’s instructions to stay back and STOP. Doesn’t much matter, does it?

And if the family can't unite to provide dog discipline in everything that they do then the dog behavourist will fail.
This dog needs 3 pack leaders who he obeys instantly to feel safe.

You've spent a year treating the dog incorrectly and allowing him to be naughty and he feels full of fear because of it.

Nothing to do with the scooter . Your dog knows that he isn't safe with you because you don't act like a pack leader.

Pack leaders get respect from dogs because of their discipline and constant communication by eyes and dog nudges with your legs.

Just remember to tell your dog behavourist that you have been treating your dog like a human baby and that he doesn't obey anyone in the family. Also that you have been doing this for a year.

Vet nurse gill

Oh vetnursegill, have you been reading the same thread or are you accidentally posting?

Your plans sound fine to me. The poor dog, of course it has showed a level of aggression with good reason! Dogs can’t speak all he has done is communicated his discomfort with a situation that frightens him. From what you have said he has not shown true aggression which would have been an unprovoked attack, he has simply communicated with you that he will not tolerate rough treatment and why should he?

he should have stopped when the OP told him to.

I agree! I said I thought it a stupid thing to do.

So, when is anyone safe to be be "left alone because who knows what other danger he might put himself in because he can't/won't listen."?

I don't know that much about horses, for example. I'm older than I want to admit. When will I be safe to be left alone going out in the street when I may encounter a horse?

When I know everything about every animal (horses and dogs included)?

You know growling is normal dog communication, right?
Yes, I do. Despite not being much of a dog expert.
Maybe I misunderstood the OP but I thought she was a bit worried about the child's proximity to DDog when DDog was was growling, snarling and showing his teeth. My fault. I took that to mean that she was worried about DDog potentially attacking the child. But, re-reading, perhaps she was just worried about DDog being frightened.

LaMarshblimey - who bloody knows what was going through the child’s mind when he approached a growling dog baring its teeth at him with his hands outstretched, despite the owner’s instructions to stay back and STOP. Doesn’t much matter, does it?

No. It doesn't. I've said I thought it was a stupid thing to do.
But I also think it's a bit unfair to assume the child was:

1: going to run over DDog's paw again. We've only OP's word that the original event happened on purpose.

2: Not trying to make amends. However silly that may have been.

A lot of opinions about a dog and very few about a MIL who just decides to wreck her grandson's peaceful evening, bring a guest, and not even bother asking the heads of household.

If OP liked to keep anthrax and tarantulas in her house it's still not MILs place to parent OPs son.

We've only OP's word that the original event happened on purpose.

Sorry OP. It sounds like I meant you were lying.
I should have said "We've only OP's impression that the original event was done on purpose".

LiveInAHidingPlace

And yes nearly 60 years of owning dogs and 30 years of being a vet nurse.
My dad was a vet for 40 years.

Every single one of our dogs was taught to accept human hands in their mouth.

There is no such thing as a bad dog but lots of bad owners. Thats why English kennels are full of dogs. People don't understand dogs and dog language and what a joy a happy dog is

gill if you believe in pack theory, I don't think much of any professional advice you have.

LaMarschallin - Presumably you will stop if you're told by someone if they ask you to? Or would you just push through and do the opposite of what you are asked at a risk?

What else could the OP do? She had no idea her previously passive dog was going to react, had the dog on the lead, and warned the child NOT to approach, which the child ignored.

LaMarschallin - Presumably you will stop if you're told by someone if they ask you to?

Yes of course. But I'm not a child (honestly).

Tbh, I doubt I'd try to pat Ddog anyway; I'm not a great fan of Ddogs (you'd never guess, would you? But, equally, I wouldn't wish harm on one).

If I was 9/10 years old (which I think this child was estimated to be by the OP), I'm not sure.

I might.

Perhaps the child shouldn't have been let out by itself if it's likely to behave in a silly way. Maybe his parents should accompany him always until he knows how to behave around all animals he's likely to meet.

And the OP was in the right by accompanying Ddog and making sure he didn't hurt a child.

But possibly not right to assume the child intentionally hurt Ddog the first time or meant to hurt him again the second time.