...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

Have you fully thought this through? You'd be taking her away from a familiar neighbourhood where all her friends are. Even early stage dementia can be taxing to deal with: at that point my mother was quite depressed but refused to do anything to help herself, and even seeing her for a few hours at a time was very difficult to deal with. Will you be able to deal with helping her with mobility if she has problems, would you (and indeed she) be happy with you dealing with things like toileting needs? What about if she reaches the point where she can't be safely left on her own - can you cope with the restrictions on your own life that that would impose?

You say this wouldn't apply if she had complex needs, e.g. severe dementia, but at what point would you decide that your care will come to an end?

Perhaps you should get this thread removed OP.
And then repost what you are actually meaning, talking about and thinking. Your views seem to be constantly changing.

@Frequency
I manage that because I get to home, stick a pizza in the oven, crack open a bottle of wine and breathe. People caring for elderly relatives in their home don't have that option and I don't understand how they cope. I couldn't do it
Great post, you tell it like it is!
This is work for skilled professionals.

In all honesty, most people whose parents need care in old age are in their 50s and 60s and small children don’t come into the equation.

I was 61 when my parents died. Prior to that I cared for them for about five years. It started with taking them shopping and to hospital appointments and gently escalated until I was running two homes, managing a rota of paid carers, doing all their paperwork and financial management, doing all the laundry and a weekly shop. It ended when a crisis meant they needed 24 hour care and I found the best care home their money could buy where I visited them every day. Throughout I also worked full time.

All of this was because we quite deliberately chose to live 12 miles from them, because I loved them dearly and because I wanted to. It was right for me. It wouldn’t be right for everyone and I would never, ever judge anyone for not doing it.

I won’t be looking after my parents when they are elderly. They don’t want to be cared for by their children and that is, in all honesty, fine with me.

In principle fine, in reality I am already a disabled Carer myself, living in social housing 12 miles away. Whilst I already help as much as I can my current caring commitments with my 3 disabled kids plus my own care needs plus my inability to move all mean it won't happen.

Having said that I do realise this means we will have to buy in care and have zero expectation of any inheritance.

he spent the next 10 years on liquid food which he couldn't drink unaided. He couldn't speak but we'd all bet money he wished he'd died

This is my big fear. I am going to get a DNR order once I pass 75 I think. There are definitely worse things than dying of a stroke or HA.

Its one thing going around cooking the odd meal, shopping or a bit of gardening, totally different washing and cleaning up when they are incontinent and/or have dementia, that is a full time job for 2 or more children...full time.

My mum made it perfectly clear that she did not want her children doing her personal care.

Also, not all children have a great relationship with their parents or vice versa.

Probably don't see too many elderly asians in residential care because they make up a v small % of the UK population and generally tend to live in particular areas.

If a parent sells up & puts the money towards a bigger house with one of the kids, what then happens if care is needed?

In respect of finances?

It's a good question...I guess it depends whose name the property is in. If in the kids name then presumably the NHS would fund?

Not an expert though...

She didn't want to go into a home but no effort was put in to getting her sectioned and put into a home or moving her into the family home (both children were retired but still very fit with a large family home).

Right, you can't 'section' someone to put them into a home. If you detain someone under the mental health act you have to send them to a mental health unit. And someone will only be sectioned if they present with very severe risks to themselves or others, given that there's basically hardly any mental health beds left in this country.

I would hate for my dcs to feel like they were to look after me in my old age.

I think you're very naive OP.

I won't be expecting my dc to 'look after' me. My Mother was adamant that she didn't want us to look after her.

When you live through what's involved, you might change your mind. People with dementia can live for years.

YABU - and I say that despite caring for my MIL who has Alzheimer’s. My FIL died unexpectedly, MIL needs 24hr supervision and the options were put her in a care home or move in, so we moved in with her as it was the best thing for her and the right thing to do we felt.

Less than 3 months into this new arrangement that has seen me uproot my 3 children the youngest of which is not even 2 yet my MIL has become significantly worse. This weekend she became violent and extremely aggressive for the very first time and actually frightened the bloody life out of me. I haven’t slept since, I can not leave her in a room with any of my children and I worry about what she might do while we sleep. As much as we want to care for her I am coming to the realisation that I don’t think we can, it’s not safe for a start, she’s a foot taller and weighs twice as much as me and is strong so I’ve no hope if she ever really turns, this in turn makes me feel as though I couldn’t protect my children if necessary and aside from all this I actually don’t think it’s fair to put my children through it. Caring for someone especially someone with Alzheimer’s or Dementia is beyond anything you can imagine and is absolutely soul destroying and bone achingly tiresome and never ever lets up.

Intentions can be as wholesome and caring as you like, but that alone doesn’t always make it possible. Knowing what I know now I would never ever judge anybody for putting a relative or parent into a care home.

"My uncle who has already stated he won't be doing any caring at all for his mother

• Friend whose Nan with dementia was left in her own home 200 miles away despite being a danger to herself and others (kept leaving the gas on, had a kitchen fire). She didn't want to go into a home"

Your Uncle is doing the right thing. Many relatives take on more than they can manage and the old person suffers.

In the case of dementia. To override the persons choice, they have to be declared as not having capacity. Sometimes that takes a crisis. It's a lot more complicated if you take in an elderly relative and need them to be placed in a residential home. SS drag their heels, meanwhile you go to pieces.

Do you not realise that an elderly person's schedule may not fit in with a younger couple? They need a level of peace and no late nights etc. They can also spend all night coughing, needing to spit etc. Struggle with the stairs, or want to dominate the television, so you feel like a guest in your own home.

You've got a idealised view of elderly care.

On the DNR front DH's parents have already sorted out power of attorney for us for finances and health while they are both still well.

Both have said they want to be DNR.

Definitely worth getting POA's signed and registered well in advance as by the time they're needed the parent may not be considered well enough to be able to give POA.

Here is the link to do POA: www.gov.uk/government/publications/make-a-lasting-power-of-attorney

Care is rarely NHS funded. It's usually social services and what you describe would be seen as depletion of assets.

I specifically said in my OP that I'm not talking about situations where there are complicating factors and mentioned, for instance, not being able to afford to move.

Okay. So being unable to move is complicating factor - but what about needing to work full-time to afford to keep a roof over your and your children's heads? When you're out of the house 40+ hours a week and have children to care for in the evenings and at weekends, when are you supposed to find the time to care for your parents?

Even if you're doing it voluntarily, elderly care is a burden. It's not just a time thing, it takes a big toll on your emotions and your mental health as well. It's not easy caring for your elderly parents on top of working full-time and looking after your own family as well.

You seem to have a very idyllic view of life.

'She didn't want to go into a home but no effort was put in to getting her sectioned and put into a home or moving her into the family home'

Sounds like you have no experience of the emotional side of all this as well as the practical.
Forcing your elderly parents out of the home they don't want to leave is a very, very hard thing to do.
My mum had to make my grandparents move out of the home they had lived in for 50 years because they were no longer safe. She agonised and put it off as long as she could. Once they left their house they deteriorated rapidly - at home with all their things they kept setting fire to kitchen appliances but they basically knew who they were. Not long after moving to the home they no longer recognised each other.

I think it depends on how you think of “caring for.”

If you’re talking about moving your parents into your own home that is fraught with issues, do you work/are their needs actually being met at home if you’re not there/are their needs such that you don’t actually have the ability/experience to care for them adequately, and then there is also the view that becoming a carer to an elderly parent changes the dynamic in the opposite direction where the child is essentially the carer and the parent is the child which brings its own issues.

However, I do think that children (assuming they have a relationship with their parents, and frankly all the talk of having been abandoned by parents/having been abused by them etc is ridiculous in this instance because surely it’s not hard to know what the OP is talking about,) then people shouldn’t just assume they can dump their parents in a home and forget about them.

I do think the middle ground here is to be able to help them to find suitable accommodation where they can be adequately cared for so that you as the child can in fact maintain the parent child relationship as you won’t be becoming a carer. But all too often I think that once children put their parents in a home they just walk away from them and never visit.

I’ve lost count of the numbers of people I’ve spoken to, in hospitals and in care homes who say that it’s far more common for elderly people to just be left once their health deteriorates than it is for the children to still stay in touch, even though they’re not actively caring for those parents.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

My fil is in his 80’s. My mother will be soon too. Both are relatively healthy and have more energy than me. I’m chronically ill. Had two extensive surgeries relatively recently from which I’m nowhere near recovered.

I am disabled. They are not. I have a dependant child. They do not. struggle on and dh even contemplated giving up work to be my carer.

How do you suggest I make that happen?

Stop with the shitty guilt inducing posts. And come back in 10 years when you’ve been wiping arses, dealing with dementia, hospitalisation, falls, infections, operations, myriad appointments etc and have aged 3 decades. Then question the motivation around people not looking after their elderly parents.

I do not expect my children to care for me in my old age.

I was recently hospitalised for a fairly minor complaint and my children rallied around to care for my dog, visiting me, etc. But I saw what a toll it took, even spreading the task between them, having to leave work early, extra driving etc.

Hopefully I will live healthily to a reasonable age, but in any event, I shall take steps to ensure that I am not a burden to anyone. I want my children to remember me as 'mum', not a screaming bedbound wreck. i am also hoping that things will be different in a few years time and there will be ways for us to voluntarily end our lives when we feel the time is right.

I did a lot of caring for both my parents in their own home .Eventually my DM had to go into a residential home as she had Alzheimer’s.No way could my DF care for her and as I was still working and had school aged DCs I couldn’t even contemplate having my parents come and live with us.I don’t expect my DCs to put their lives on hold to look after me in my old age . As others have said it’s one thing looking after a frail elderly parent but completely different having to care for someone with Alzheimer’s/dementia 24/7.

Not an expert though...

I think this statement sums up why you are being unreasonable with your original statement. You have never looked after an elderly parent, you know nothing about it.
You also seem to be confused with actual care work and just helping out.
Most people will help where they can with their elderly parents and make sure that they are looked after but that is a different game to actual day to day care.

We live in the UK. My parents live in another European country. DH's parents live in the Caribbean. As long as there are other options, I wouldn't move my DC half way across the world in order to try and care for elderly parents - and neither parents nor PIL would want to be moved to the UK never mind the visa issues.

Even if they did move here, DH and I both need to work in order to pay our rent. We couldn't be 24/7 carers, and I'm sure we'd be worse at things like helping with toiletting or severe dementia than somebody who's trained and does it professionally.

Two of my family member give 'general elderly' care to a relative. He fell recently and was unable to get himself up. He spent the night on the floor in his own shit and piss trying his best to call loud enough to wake his daughter or her husband. He never managed it. He was on the floor from 2am until 8am when her alarm went off. She then didn't have the training to get him up off the floor so had to call me. It took me another 45 minutes to get to him. He wasn't able to get up the way I have been trained to get someone up if they fall with one carer present. I had to phone my sister, who is also a care worker. She took an hour to get to him as she had young children to get dressed.

He's now been 'left' in a care home while he recovers. When he does recover he will have a trained care worker going in to assist with toileting and transfers four times a day and a falls pendant attached to care line. He will have to pay for the equipment needed himself (Automatic lifting cushion, stand aid etc).

If he'd been 'left' in a care home or with a team of home carers when I pointed out he needed one instead of my family insisting they wouldn't 'palm him off' then none of that would have happened and he wouldn't now be in nursing care receiving rehab.