...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

It doesn't sit comfortably with me to say children didn't ask to be born therefore have no duty of care.

My parents helped me with childcare, now I'm helping with elder care. I'm at the sharp end now and know it's exhausting and not suggesting 24/7.

Posters are asking what happened in the past - and apart from people dying earlier from heart attacks, strokes and even stomach ulcers there were large NHS facilities. Where I lived there was what we used to call a mental asylum and "geriatric" hospitals catering for elderly people with various types of senility as it was known then. People would also send the children with learning difficulties to the local "mental handicap" hospital. So out of sight out of mind (people were told it was the kindest thing and everybody believed the authorities knew best) So the granny who sat in the corner knitting would be the sweet forgetful lady who could be looked after in the family home (quite often she would be the person who owned the house anyway).
Fortunately all of those places have now gone (they were even horrendous and imposing from the outside) but there are still people needing the care and there was nothing put in place when these awful places closed.

In an ideal world yes if its possible to help then you probably should but in my case no I don't get on with my mother & I'd probably end up pushing her out of the window

I think as a society we have a duty to properly care for the elderly but it seems that in the main it is counterproductive when the 'heavy-duty' aspects of this care are provided by relatives.
Obviously as a society we are failing in this duty and this places an intolerable burden upon the relatives of the elderly.
We are wealthy enough to make proper provision for the weak and vulnerable in our society but for various reasons, inequality, corruption failure of government to properly legislate etc, we do not

Absolutely @fiftiesmum. At the turn of the century I worked for a local authority that sold off all its residential care homes in order to buy back the provision. There was huge protest at the shortsightedness and where it would lead, protests about “Selling yer granny”. And here we are, those protesters 20 years ago were on the money.

My mother was in care for the last 10 years of her life, and bedridden for the last couple of years.
First, as someone else mentioned, elderly people are kept alive a lot longer than in the past.
She had the flu jab every year, and a pneumonia jab.
She caught the winter vomiting disease, and was treated for that.
At some point, she caught MRSA (while in hospital), and was treated for that.
In the past, some of these illnesses would have caused her to die sooner.
Finally, in the past, elderly people were often put in the workhouse, as some of my ancestors were; though being my ancestors, they obviously had children.

@ThighTgighOhThigh
I have to agree with Thigh. I think we have a moral duty as members of society to try to help where we can. And yes I do think we have an obligation to both past and future generations. I’m not saying 24/7 care, but helping out with shopping, jobs,meals, visits etc to the elderly.

MrsCat1, And I'm wondering if that's what the OP was trying to get at, but it all got lost in her poorly-worded and seemingly judgmental posts.

I do think we have an obligation to both past and future generations. ... helping out with shopping, jobs,meals, visits etc to the elderly.

I'm wondering if that's what the OP was trying to get at

If it is, then that kind of "helping out" is no basis for her and DP to move in with her in-laws which is what they suggested to her. The OP needs to be very clear in her mind about what level of care she expects/is able to provide and what level of care they will expect or are likely to need in future.

I don't have any children (by choice) so I don't expect anyone to help me.

It means I am fully aware that I need to pay for support and that support will be in the form of paid carers.

I have also told my DH that if my care needs mean I need to go into a care home rather than stay at home then he isn't to feel guilty about doing that.

To all those proudly saying that they have told their children to go off and live their lives and not to worry about caring for them in the future (because they "didn't ask to be born"), do you really mean that?
Think about it. Setting aside the potential need for 24/7 care (which I think we've established is best provided for most in a professional setting), you will be happy to know that you've raised such selfish offspring that they will seldom visit you, or help out in supporting you in your twilight years by setting up an online shop or accompanying you to a hospital appointment? Because they'll be having far too good a time out living the high life?

you will be happy to know that you've raised such selfish offspring that they will seldom visit you, or help out in supporting you in your twilight years by setting up an online shop or accompanying you to a hospital appointment? Because they'll be having far too good a time out living the high life?

That's hardly the same as giving up your independence and sacrificing your own family/life to care for someone, is it?

And, from speaking to friends who are now caring for parents, there is an enormous grey area between requiring the occasional help to do an online shop and requiring 24 hour care.

I don't expect my children to restrict their own lives in order to be on call for me. I didn't have them so that I would have care and companionship in my old age.

Life is going to be hard enough for this and the next generation of adults as it is. I want them to have some enjoyment. If they choose to then that is up to them but I don't expect them to because I have spent these years raising them.

I have to agree @callmeAngelina. You also can’t foresee how diverse your needs will be and how these might not be met by the state. For example I’ve accompanied my mother on dozens and dozens of medical appointments. Yes there is hospital transport but that would further confuse and upset my already confused and almost immobile mother. The state will offer a basic back up, but when you are old and vulnerable you may well change your opinion about not wanting your family to have to help.

such selfish offspring that they will seldom visit you, or help out in supporting you in your twilight years by setting up an online shop or accompanying you to a hospital appointment?

There can be such a small-minded Little Englander mindset on here sometimes, as though adult offspring inevitably gravitate to live their lives within a convenient distance of their parents as a default. I am very fond of my parents, but haven't lived in the same country as them since the mid-1990s, and PILs are not in the UK either. DH and I would find it deeply odd to imagine that DS would necessarily stay in whatever country we're living in by the time he leaves home -- he needs to have same degree of freedom we have had, and we certainly didn't have a child to have him dance attendance on us when we're old.

What people are saying and what some of you insist on twisting is that they won't actively obligate their children and guilt trip them into being responsible for elderly care. If the children feel inclined to do so and volunteer they won't beat them away with a stick. The important point those posters are making is 'we didn't have children just so they would be our carers in old age'. Which is what some entitled posters seem to think is acceptable. Tit for tat transactional we cared for you as children so now you owe us even though we all know the two things aren't comparable.

If you have a friendly healthy dynamic you will figure out difficult logistics and care options together. Even when people don't have this and have difficult relationships to contend with most people still step up to the plate and try to do the right thing. A few have such fractured relationships (understandably due to abuse etc) that they want no part in it.

None of this requires sanctimonious posturing does it? Surely you can understand people have to make the choices that are right for them factoring in all the material and emotional constraints?

Dementia is only seeming to be increasing because of course more people are living later but dementia is often related to lifestyle. So my Dad has vascular Dementia which was caused by a stroke and in turn that was from many years of smoking and poor diet. Hopefully we will see a decrease where people are not smoking as much these days

@brassbrass, the transactional aspect originated in some people saying they wouldn’t help their parents because they hadn’t been helped with childcare. That’s an incredibly common stance on MN.

Small-minded Little Englander mindset?
I have a 5 hour round-trip to visit my dad. So does my brother. He travels abroad extensively for work. I'm a teacher (so not easy to take time off in term-time). We have still managed to do our bit for our parents in recent years to alleviate the inevitable responsibility my sister, who is local, has. Fortunately, my parents moved closer to her a few years back.
I know everyone's situation is different. Our good friends emigrated 15 years ago, but are now experiencing all sorts of stress trying to organise help for a parent from 4,000 miles away. Much harder.
Of course they had to move, for their jobs and life aspirations, and their parent understood that (or so they say!) but it is very difficult. Whilst they can chuck money at a lot of the issues, they have also had to factor in last-minute trans-Atlantic flights to help out in a couple of emergency situations. But they still do as much as they can from abroad (e.g, thrice-weekly hour-long Face-time calls, sourcing mobility aids and carers from a distance etc).
And for my part, despite having travelled to see my dad 9 out of the last 10 weekends (he's extremely unwell now and, as I've said up-thread, being cared for wonderfully in a residential home), I've still managed to do plenty of my own "life-stuff" and social engagements since we reached this stage.

And also at first yes I was helping Dad do his shopping, helping him remembering pills and doing his housework. Having him call me often at 3am in a panic about whether it is bin day or not or that he can't work the tv. But now no I absolutely can't cope with him he needs hoisting, one on one care, is doubly incontinent so needs changing, needs feeding literally every need done and anticipated. He doesn't know anything, who I am, where he is. I know he absolutely would not of wanted me to struggle looking after him like this and running a house and looking after my kids. Go on then you be a hero but until the situation hits you don't know what you will do.

I'm still working through the thread but no way could I have cared for my mother once dementia took hold. The time that happened was acutely distressing for everyone - not least her.

alsohuman if you stopped being so pedantic you'd realise that on MN when people say that it's usually the tip of the iceberg in terms of relationship issues. If you've had parents who could have but selfishly didn't help you when you desperately needed the help then it's going to alter how you feel about them. Magenta's post earlier was a good example of that behaviour. It's not usually isolated to just not helping with childcare but other disappointments and fractures along the way.

Let's say for arguments sake that there are people 🤣 who absolve themselves of all adult responsibility because their parents wouldn't babysit that one time 🙄 if you've raised children with such a knobbish amount of entitlement then I'm afraid the blame lies at your crap parenting!

I've still managed to do plenty of my own "life-stuff" and social engagements since we reached this stage.

Come back when you're at breaking point.

Amazing that making a well evidenced point gets you labelled pedantic. You may wish to check out what definition of that word is @brassbrass.

It's just not that simple op. We'd always imagined that we would have my Fil living with us but he got spinal cancer and ended up in a wheelchair which couldn't fit in our house (think smallish terrace with steps to get in). He didn't want to come anyway. He wanted to stay near his friends and have quiet. Even if we had moved, spent money on conversions and specialist equipment etc, we would have had maximum 2 years before he would have had to be looked after in a nursing home anyway. We did help with trying to find suitable accommodation for a wheelchair user, dealing with social services, sorting his finances and then supporting him as he got more ill by finding a nursing home that could meet his needs, bearing in mind that he was paralysed from the waist down by this point and needed hoists, special beds and nursing care. There is a point where people with proper training do a better job. When my grandmother was dying at home, my dad was relieved when my aunt arrived as she was a nurse and so knew how to move my grandmother without hurting her.

Well evidenced 🤣🤣 and MN is your source? You're funny too.