...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

I’ve just talked to DH about how they cared for his gran.
Although he remembers her as a white haired old woman she was only in her 60s. The care was taking her some shopping and taking her out a bit, she wasn’t housebound and would still go to the shop and social club. Lots of relatives lived nearby and would pop in.She then dropped dead one day of a heart attack.
My MIL used to talk about how they cared for her for years. That’s what they considered care.
When she was in the last few years of her life, she was in her 70s, housebound, frail, complex medical needs. No one lived that near as no one could afford to.
Things are very different.

My family had a very good crack and caring for an elderly parent after the other parent died. I’ll be honest it tore the family apart. Everyone did their absolute best to care for their Dad by taking it in turns to stay a night each with him. But it simply didn’t work, he needed consistent and specialist care. There were huge arguments about how to care for him and who should do it. My Mum ended up taking up the brunt of medical care and taking him to hospital appointments which meant she couldn’t hold down a job, spent years out of work and struggled to get back into the workforce.

I don’t think she regrets it for a minute but it has hugely impacted her life and her relationship with her siblings.

Even with the very best intentions caring for elderly relatives can be extremely hard. I think you add over simplifying a very complex issue.

How would you propose this is done if you have multiple siblings? Who

I don't think there is any 'should' about it.
There are lots of reasons why people do and lots why they don't.

My mother had the expectation that she could live with one of us but she was awkward, demanding, critical and judgemental and there was no way she was living with me and my 5 siblings felt the same way. 3 brothers living in in the UK. so the majority of care would have fallen to her DILs, even if brothers hadn't been working full time. One brother in Australia, so that was out. My and her husband who both worked full time and me, living alone and working full time. They weren't prepared to have her but thought maybe I would as I live alone and in a bungalow. No fucking chance. I visited at least weekly and she did nothing but whinge and moan at me. I did shopping and my daughter did too and it was never right and we should know she didn't like that brand - type - or whatever and it was our fault 'for not looking properly' if something was out of stock.

She went into a very good care home (I know it was good as I assessed leadership and management skills in care home managers so I knew what to look for) and still she found something to whinge about every day. Apparently she could feel the bed frame through a brand new expensive mattress - and that was my brother's fault as he must have chosen the wrong mattress to replace the perfectly good one that the Care Home provided.

No, I don't feel guilty.

And if I don't manage to die before I need care - I will be in a Care Home too even though my daughter has said I can live with her. I won't get that far though if I can help it.

When both people work full time, they simply can't undertake this extent of caring, especially with the complexity of needs some very elderly parents can have these days. My mother did a fair amount of caring for my grandfather, enabling him to remain in his own home as long as possible, but his dementia and other issues meant he also needed paid carers, and needed a care home for a short period at the end. The attention he needed wasn't simply care (washing, eating etc), it was really medical, as is often the case these days.

Also people are sandwiches between being expected to care for elderly parents, but also to work full time, or often to provide extensive childcare for grandchildren. There simply aren't enough hours in the day .

having worked in nursing homes as an agency nurse it comes across with sadness and relief from relatives who have tried caring for elderly relatives and have found it too much. most have taken it on with good intentions but have to give up, it's not easy as the population is ageing.

I think there is a massive difference between should and could or want to.

All I think any of us can hope for is to do is our best for the people we love and who love us. What that looks like will vary massively depending on need and ability.

I think it’s more complicated than this.
Decades ago there was more women that didn’t work so would have the time to care for elderly relatives. People now work full time for longer, have children later. Some people still have youngish children when their parents become elderly or ill.
A lot of parents provide childcare for grandchildren which again probably didn’t happen so much 30-40 years ago as there was more sahp.
Housing market as well means people can’t sell and move as quickly as in the 90s when there was 100% mortgages around.

YABU.

As a carer, I can tell you caring for someone isn't as easy as most people believe. It's not all about wiping bottoms and making tea and sandwiches.

Many elderly people suffer with some degree of memory loss even if they don't have full on dementia. Many other regress to their childhood personality and throw frequent temper tantrums. Carers don't just wipe bottoms and make meals. We remind people that, actually, the reason you're in that specific chair is because you can no longer weight bear and no, you really, really shouldn't try to get up to walk to the corner shop. We remind of that as often as needed, whether it's every once in a while or every three minutes. We stay awake during the night and hold the hand of your relative who is afraid to go to sleep in case they don't wake up. We comfort them when they wake in a panic every hour or so. We sit with them on the floor for hours at a time waiting for ambulances when they fall. We manage their tantrums while treating them with the respect they deserve as an adult.

I manage that because I get to home, stick a pizza in the oven, crack open a bottle of wine and breathe. People caring for elderly relatives in their home don't have that option and I don't understand how they cope. I couldn't do it.

And it's not just that. Many parents don't want their children to do a lot of the things required. Mothers don't want their grown sons checking under their breasts and their groin for sores. Men don't want their grown daughters checking their scrotum for sores or washing their penis if they have a catheter. We care for some people whose families are very close and very involved in their care but we do all the personal care at the request of the person being cared for.

It's not fair to young families or working children to take on the burden of full time caring and it's not fair to the elderly people to have to live with it. What we need is for carers to be recognised for the work they do and to be paid, trained and respected accordingly and then you won't get bad carers, you will get people who do the job because they genuinely care. And we need relatives to recognise that good care costs and to expect that their inheritance will, rightly, be spent on ensuring their parents have the best possible care when they need it instead of trying to hide and hoard their parents money and assets and expecting stretched councils to pick up the bill.

so I'm guessing OP also doesn't have to worry about loss of earnings.

I definitely do have to worry about loss of earnings just like everyone else.

More so, because I'm self employed and so any time would be unpaid, no compassionate leave or anything like that.

Why is it always women who get guilt tripped about this? Women already take on the bulk of childcare (and many work FT now too). Men aren't expected to look after relatives so often it ends up with women looking after DCs, DPs and PILs simultaneously. Obviously people do what they can but often they need help depending on the severity of the conditions etc. Added to this, many people have to move often for work these days, the likelihood of everyone living nearby is slim so not always practical.

I'm talking more of general elder care.

General elder care is still a huge ask for working families - lots of people are already out of the house 12 hours a day with work, they have children to look after in the evenings and at weekends - when do you propose all this care actually happens?

Realistically for a working couple to provided elder care, one of them needs to be in the privileged position of not needing to work full-time hours - how on earth does it happen otherwise?

Working hours, long commutes and childcare commitments all take up large amounts of time and mean parents often don't have any free time to regularly spend looking after their parents.

It would make sense if home carers of elderly relatives received inheritance tax rebates.

YABU

I think its a cultural issue tbh.

You don't really see elderly asian parents left in old peoples' homes....

How many Asian men (or white British, for that matter) do the caring for their own parents though?

Jamdani but it does happen, in my experience, where the previously unpaid caring class (daughters) have got careers or a divorce. Things are changing.

Op, i have 2 parents not living together, one 30 mibs away one 2.5 hours away. PILs living together 45 mins away, ine with dementia. A childless godmother currentlybin hospital for rehab from a head injury. All in their 80s with increasingly significant needs. I also have a teenager to care for. My husband is dead. My job is demanding and although its part time following my bereavement, its been the inly incone for a long time and iys precious. i have a terraced house withsteep stairs and no spare room. I have siblings in both families but we are scattered.

Yes, i agree with you, but whete do i start? ive spent my last 3 weekends doing various time with elders. Im knackered and its another working week. Tell me how to sort all this out. Tell me how your elders all ate at 85 - its a very different kettle of fish from 75.

OP, based on that answer, how can how you come out with this shite?

What are you defining as "caring"? How many hours have you spent in hospitals with a frail elderly person so far? Do you have trouble sleeping at night because you are waiting for the next crisis phone call? Do you hear the phone ringing with that crisis even when it's not?

I actually hope you've started this thread talking out of your arse - and I hope you never go through what many posters have gone through with their parents.

Ok so you are excluding cases of abuse.

What about families were both adults work full time, are we included in your OP? If yes how do you suggest we support our parents if we are both out of the house 8am-7pm?

DP and I are mid-20s and DP's parents are now in their late 60s and experiencing health problems, some due to a poor lifestyle. DP has not had a close relationship with his parents.

FIL has diabetes, heart problems and cancer. MIL has heart problems and what looks to be the early stages of dementia. DP has older siblings who live on the other side of the world so there's no way they would be helping out with any care.

Are we supposed to spend our 20s looking after DP's parents when we are both working full time trying to afford things such as buying a house? We are at the early stages of our adult lives and can't afford to look after DP's parents.

@RosaWaiting
She would find a place to sit and cry
this sounds just appalling for both of them 😟 do you know how it worked out long-term?

You can be pretty worn out with arranging shopping, cleaning, visits to hospital etc while they are still fit and well (but elderly).
I think it's easy to say you will look after them but it's not that simple, and when your DM is 90 you will be what OP, ?70 - how will your health be then?
I think most intend to care but things change.

But I was neither neglected or abused. My mother just couldn't be arsed being a parent. I posted my situation to show how many different variations there are and that what works for you doesn't work for everyone. I hope your situation works out as perfectly as you are planning. But life throws a curve ball quite frequently.

My mother is a cow who will go into a care home the first moment she needs to.

Let's not beat around the bush either, this isn't a thread about "people" looking after elderly relatives, it's about women doing it. And the expectation is that women will give up their lives in order to do that.

And why the bloody hell should they?

oh and regarding parents coming to live with you - mum doesn't want to move, understandably, but if she did, where does she fit in my one bed flat?

so I go to her and have an even longer commute? Brilliant idea, OP.

You don't really see elderly asian parents left in old peoples' homes....

No, but the family set-up there is very different. Less women work outside the home, for example, and children tend to stay at home until they're married so the burden is spread around too.

I think there should be a presumption of care, excepting cases where the parent has been abusive, but that does not have to mean the child physically doing it all themselves.

If what the child does is accept power of attorney, manage the parent's affairs and arrange carer support when needed, that IMO is caring for your parents. It then leaves you able to visit, spend time with them, and have a relationship which is about you being family, rather than dependent/carer.

And it does rather depend on the parent being reasonable and recognising their child as an independent adult who has their own life to live. Parents who don't do that may reap what they sow.

I know of a case where the parent is unable to be alone for more than a few hours at a time (not because of illness, just because they don't like it). They constantly require one or other of their children to be with them - even when the daughter was widowed, even when the son was undergoing cancer treatment. Parent has now moved into a home, but conveniently "feels ill" whenever either son or daughter is planning to go out for the day or even a couple of hours. So the child goes, only to find parent feels "much better" once they get there. It's very sad that this person (well over 90) cannot allow their children to enjoy their lives and their own grandchildren, even though they themselves now have access to care and company 24 hours a day.

My Mum is in her 80's, currently well and independent, but has made provision to move into care should she need it. This is because she endured the way my father's parents called on them to do every little thing for them, even though they had plenty of money to pay for people to do jobs. They insisted it be done by family and it became a joyless chore.