...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

One of the first conversations we had was that we were in agreement that no relatives would be living out their days with us!
We are both nc with dps and age won't change that!
You aren't obliged to care for them just because they made you!
I have told my dc I certainly don't expect them to look after me...

All parties have their part to play.

Older generation should ensure they are as financially sound as possible and plan for funding through retirement to funeral.

The younger generation should consider bringing the older generation into their home at the right time, if they have space, or buying a larger property together.

Both parties need to be open, honest and trusting in financial, physical and emotional matters.

We are in the planning stages right now, for about 10 years time when it will likely be the right time to start taking action.

For the moment we are all quite self sufficient but know that can change. It may take 15 years, it might take 5, but at least it won’t be a shock to anyone (and we can focus on the more important things that created that situation as those will likely take a lot of energy in themselves).

Just getting housing, finances and help sorted is a great start.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs

You actually don't know that at all. When my dad died, he was diagnosed with cancer on the Weds and died on the Friday. There was no need for me to uproot my family to care for him at all. It would have been incredibly disruptive and served no purpose whatsoever.

I should give up my hard-won and worked for job and my ability to pay into my pension in order to change my father’s pads, hoist him in and of bed onto the commode and give him his medication instead of his trained carers in his nursing home?
How is that a sensible thing to do? What happens when I retire and haven’t got much of a pension? Does my medic daughter give HP her job too?

My dad died alone in the middle of the night after a fall just like his mother
This is just terrible for everyone concerned😔
one big problem is that there isn't enough suitable accommodation for elderly people and (understandably) for various reasons it can be traumatic as you get older to relocate, to leave the place you consider home, we need to find solutions to these problems

YABVVU.
You have not seen the soul destroying side of caring for elderly parents, when they can no longer care for themselves and any amount of visiting carers to not make up the difference. Coming home from a day at work to have to pop over and cook their meals as well as your own, to coax your father to use the actual toilet because he couldn't be bothered and continues to use bottles he finds, to change your mother's bedding because her sores are so bad, to slip in your father's excrement because his onset dementia has deteriorated quickly and severely and he can no longer think of getting to the toilet. It is utterly heartbreaking and I have full sympathy for anyone who then makes the difficult decision to seek a care home instead.

Do fuck off @wheresmymojo - at least until you have a clue that not everyone lives in the lovely little world you seem to inhabit. Empathy bypass or what?

OP - Come back after you have been looking after elderly parents with dementia for a few years. You might find that the reality is rather different to the theory.

Nurse here working with older adults. There's a huge difference in levels of care that older parents may need as a first point. Starting at just helping someone pop to the shops occasionally to someone with dementia needing 24 hour care, including washing, dressing and toileting who may wander out of the house, be up or night or be aggressive.

There's also lot of reasons in my experience why children don't help their elderly parents:

Work commitments.
Childcare commitments.
Poor health of adult child.
Poor relationship between child and parents.
Not wanting to do personal or intimate care for a parent as feeling uncomfortable with this.
Living too far away for it to be practically possible.
Not having a home environment that can meet the elderly parents needs (corridors to narrow for wheelchairs, not having access to hoists etc).
Parents not wanting to be 'a burden' to their children and therefore not wanting to ask for help.
Parent needs complex medication management beyond what adult child can manage.

Edwin makes an excellent point. My father had cancer and was horrendously ill with it, but over a relatively short period of time.

I could have lost a lot of income but as I said on another thread, my manager basically lied to HR about time off I had, in order to avoid me having to get into unpaid leave.

so I'm guessing OP also doesn't have to worry about loss of earnings.

my mother is 80 and clearly hopes she will die before encountering some of the more complex problems her friends have. I love her to bits and spend a lot of time with her, but it's incredibly depressing. She is a very different person than she was in her 70s, not surprisingly.

I had one colleague who had her mum move in with her and found it so depressing, she told me every day, on the walk home from the station, she would find a place to sit and just cry before she headed back into the house.

My mum was diagnosed with dementia when my son was 5. She doesn't have 'nice' dementia where you get to look at photos together and sing Grace Fields, but the spitting, horrible type. Should I have given up my job (and I was in my 30's then) to care for her? And my home, ds's home and marriage of course?
8 years on, she's still alive, so this is my ds's entire childhood under the cloud of my parents needs (because I'm not there physically doesn't mean I'm not worrying about the carers/latest health crisis) - and now MIL is terminally ill, and I won't be doing hands on care there either

There have been many threads recently on pensions - i was reading one last night - and how we all need to be working towards putting more money into our pension pots and not relying on the state pension. Inevitably we need to be working to achieve this and working for longer.

What i struggle to get my head around is if you have a parent who requires significant care (which given my ddads diagnosis 24 hr care is inevitable in his case) how you manage that plus putting enough aside for pensions for my old age etc let alone living expenses for now plus and juggling other family members and children. Something has to give.

Oh and to add to my list, there's a lot of older people who are quite stubborn and adamantly refuse to accept that they need help, even when they plainly aren't managing.

Totally depends imo on what the parents were like and what level of care they need.

For example, they did full time childcare so you could work, gave you a house deposit and now need you to check in on them, do their shopping, drive them to appointments then absolutely, you should do it.

Did the bare minimum to raise you, never baby sat their gc or went out of their way, now want to live you? No, I wouldn't.

For me, my own parents died when I was young...so I won't have to provide care for anyone. It's a shitty silver lining but there you go!

I certainly wouldn't do anything for mil, not that its expected, as she is totally disinterested in us.

I have other elderly relatives, but I certainly won't be helping them.

My dc will both be adults by the time i'm 46 and I'm very much looking forward to my freedom away from caring responsibilities.

Elder care is a 24/7 commitment. I have a job, I have had a job throughout having children and I will still have a job when my parents and inlaws are elderly. I would love to see them regularly, ideally daily, certainly more than once a week, but I will not give up my job.
How many men do you know give up their jobs to look after their parents or inlaws?

You reap what you sow in this world. My parents could not be arsed with me while growing up, they never even visit and have taken zero interest in their grandchildren, so no, I will not be giving a shite when they are old and infirm, let them struggle like I have had to.

It's difficult because a lot of people won't be able to afford to care for their parents. People have full-time jobs, mortgages and bills to pay, children to feed and need to work - being able to give up your job at a moment's notice is a luxury.

I love my parents but love doesn't pay the bills. I need to work in order to pay my mortgage - and I think the majority of people are in that situation. How can you provide your parents with full-time care when you're out of the house 40+ hours a week with work?

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs

And as for this - really? Do you honestly think everyone can afford to move house just in case their parents need help in ten years time? What if both sets of parents need help and live at opposite ends of the country - what happens then? Do you divorce and buy houses in different places just to support them?

People should plan for their old age and that doesn't just mean saving into a pension - it means downsizing if they have a big house with lots of stairs, for example. It means considering moving to a bungalow or a flat in order to save on bills and rent. Or potentially moving near their children (not the other way around) so they have some help but their children aren't expected to give up their jobs and lives to help out.

I did specifically state in my OP that I'm not talking about circumstances where there has been parental abuse (including emotional abuse).

My own father was abusive, died at 70 of pancreatic cancer and I didn't even visit let alone care for him.

I'm talking specifically about non-abusive families where there are no complex factors.

I would count the later stages of dementia as a complex factor - it's an illness that requires full time care. I'm talking more of general elder care.

I realise most wouldn't be able to do 24/7 care.

When my parents became extremely ill and frail a year ago I was clear with myself that my biggest responsibility was to save money for my own retirement. Retirement can go on a long time and you are very vulnerable if you haven’t saved. My parents are able to afford help. They don’t need me wiping their bottoms and would not want me to do it. I visit them frequently and help when I can.

Whosorrynow "we need to find solutions to these problems"

but do we? my mother lives alone. Sis and I can't watch her 24 hours a day. She would rather stay in her house.

there's a dangerous thinking that's developed I think, almost as if people aren't allowed to die. It's considered that we ought to keep them alive as long as possible.

A friend of mine, her father had a stroke and was miraculously saved by doctors - they said if had been a few minutes later he was found, he would have died.

he spent the next 10 years on liquid food which he couldn't drink unaided. He couldn't speak but we'd all bet money he wished he'd died.

And without wanting to sound condescending OP, you haven’t got to the point of considering round the clock care for your in-laws. You just know it might happen one day. But you don’t know what care they might need. They might need none. They might need round the clock care due to say, dementia and be doubly incontinent, fling their waste around (including at you) and black both your eyes because they thought you were someone else and were frightened. They might scare your kids, set fire to your kitchen blinds while making a cuppa.... you get the picture.

@Justmuddlingalong I specifically stated this wasn't aimed at anyone who had any kind of parental abuse or neglect.

I myself was abused and didn't look after that parent.

I think its a cultural issue tbh.

You don't really see elderly asian parents left in old peoples' homes....

So. After your last post, as long as it's"fluffy" caring, you're happy to do it?

OP "I'm talking more of general elder care"

meaning what?