Is DD BU to want to escape this friendship?

[LittleDoritt]

Sorry, this is so long for what is essentially a storm in a teacup!

DD is 9 and has had the same BFF, Isobel, for four years. Isobel is a very bossy, domineering child and DD is a follower rather than a leader so they've always worked well as a pair, although it's been difficult to watch sometimes as a parent - e.g. as Isobel has told DD what she is "allowed" to wear or have for lunch that day. Isobel has no other friends.

Over the course of the last six months DD has met lots of new friends through some extra curricular activities and has a new found confidence. She's started "breaking" Isobel's rules, and sometimes pairs up with other girls for lunch or games. She's gone to parties and play dates that Isobel hasn't received an invitation to. This has gone down so so badly! It's like it's started WW3.

I've been receiving a barrage of messages (daily) from Isobel's mum about how DD is deliberately excluding her and making her life a misery. I tried to explain that DD was just spreading her wings a bit and still valued her friendship but then the messages changed to "your DD is a bully, she should be excluded from school" I took the messages to the headteacher as I was horrified and he did a full investigation and found no evidence of any bullying. He was as baffled as I was as to what was going on in the mums mind.

I was looking forward to having a bit of a break from it all over the school holidays but I've been getting weekly messages from the mum about how important it is the girls repair their friendship and we must meet up.

The problem is that now DD knows she has been called a bully and interviewed by the headteacher etc she genuinely doesn't want anything to do with Isobel any more! Ive tried the MN favourite "Sorry, that's not going to work for us" but now every day this week there have been FB posts on the mum's wall about "little bitches" being horrible to her daughter and "mean girls getting their comeuppance". Her friends are writing things like "I'd give the mean little bitch a slap". I really don't want anything to do with these people, but all the while I'm getting text messages asking to organise a play date or a sleepover.

They've been inseparable for four years up until now and we live in a tiny town. I don't know how to extricate DD from this!

It's DDs birthday in a couple of weeks and she is adamant that she doesn't want to invite Isobel. The fallout from that would be enormous - she has been to every one of Isobel's parties, as well as all of her brothers and cousins parties as well. I don't know how to approach this!

Can you give me some suggestions please, as I will still bump into this woman multiple times a day and the awkwardness is going to be acute.

Also, it is highly inappropriate to compare this friendship to that of an abusive relationship.

There’s so much of this kind of thing going on towards the end of primary and during the first years of secondary. Friendships shift almost daily and it’s hard work and often a lot of drama. But your dd has every right to have her party with whomever she likes. Hopefully Isobel will learn to navigate friendships better (by learning to behave like an actual friend). They are girls growing up quickly and your dd is discovering a new assertiveness which can only be a good thing.

I’ve seen some of this from both ends. OP’s responsibility is to DD, but if ways can be found to help Isobel adapt to DD setting the rules / boundaries for a change the it will help all round.

I think the problem is, and will continue to be, the mum! Until she realises that Isobel needs to change you are pushing water up hill.

The only thing I would add differently is to explain to DD that she would be doing a nice thing by helping Isobel change a grow, but it can only be when she is comfortable helping Isobel ... until then, be polite and steer clear.

As for the Mum. If she doesn’t challenge friends suggesting violence against a child then she needs to be challenged on this. Screenshot and make school aware that additional issues have arisen during the holidays but you will only bring details in should it be required or requested.

Sounds like mother like daughter to me. I’ve had this with my son, other child bullying my son and acting like his best friend whenever his mother was around so when we tried to cut the friendship off I had the whole boys will be boys crap, now we just acknowledge from a far. She’ll get over it and eventually the mom will too

OP you've been brilliant and reserved at not jumping to the other mum's comments.

Absolutely screen shot messages in case the mum's behaviour becomes worse - as a police officer POV just in case this mum starts on you in public.

I had a best friend that I made on my first day of school, we had a couple of other really good friends through school too. We liked to do similar things together but neither of us was controlling. The only thing was she lived a bit of a fantasy and made up white lies about her life. Her mum was very controlling and heavy handed. I guess she used it as a mean of escape from her miserable home life however one day her mum called mine and accused me of bullying her daughter. It couldn't have been further from the truth and one of my other friend's called her out on it. She couldn't give an answer but I can only assume it was because our friendship had moved from a solid 2 to solid 3/4 girls.

Totally agree with the other posters, Isobel might have been the way she has because her mum has made things difficult at home (not a surprise). I think you should get DD to try and include her in play with others but not let her take her off on her own.

Try not to engage with the mum as much as possible but just say that the friendship has run its course and DD will be civil to her when they go back to school.

I think it’s worth remember this is still a little girl who presumably has less to do with the bullying accusations than her mum. She is probably sad. Yes, sounds like it’s a natural result of her behaviour but if no one has ever helped to see this then in a sense she is a victim of having a toxic mum. Personally I would encourage DD to invite her to her birthday (especially if not in the house) but make it clear she can set the terms of how she is treated. Encourage her to be clear but kind to Isobel. Ignore the mum and be as low contact as possible.

If it's just 5 or 6 children it is absolutely fine not to invite Isobel. If you were inviting every other girl in the class, that would be different.

Your DD should not have to suffer having a child who she clearly doesn't want at her birthday, just to placate that child or her Mother.

I'd be tempted to screenshot the FB posts and save them as others have said.

I'd reply to her texts saying something like "really sorry we're booked up now for the rest of the holidays" and leave it at that.

And yy to making sure their ew teacher is aware. Could your DD be moved to another class? This might help to.

And do let your DD know that if someone is being mean or grumpy or telling her what to do, she doesn't have to play with them. She can go and find someone else to play with who is being nicer.

Yes, it's going to be awkward with the Mum, but I think you are probably best keeping the evidence, putting a smile on and braving it out.

YANBU, OP.
At 9 they know who they want to be friends with. I have a similar situation and it will be a simple, "really sorry, but the girls aren't getting on like they used to."

In my case, my friend will understand as she sees it, too.

But the mother of Isobel is batchit crazy so this could be interesting... good luck!

Isobel's mum is a bully.
Isobel is controlling.
The mum calls your daughter a little birch passive aggressively.
Listen to your daughter and cut these awful people out.

I would speak to the mum and say your dd feels bad that she was called a bully and doesn't feel ok staying friends with her. You could maybe do a play date at yours or a picnic or bowling where you can keep an eye on them both. I would ignore the FB posts sometimes they make people mad and don't know the reasoning behind them.

Aged 8 I had a friend like Isobel.
One day I couldn't take it anymore & declared that I didn't want to be her friend anymore.
She cried & got the other girls to beg me me to give her a second chance but I was determined.
My Isobel went on to control & bully other girls but I was free.

My mum was happy because she'd seen this girls true colours long before I did.
Luckily in those days there was no social media & my Isobel's Mum was too busy with her new baby twins to care about her daughters friendships.

I think DD should stay clear of Isobel & OP should be very firm with her mother.
DD will gain in confidence & Isobel will soon find another victim.
Delete & block the mum on Facebook- she can't be a bully if you can't see what she & her weird friends are writing. They will soon move on if there's no response.

I wouldn't put it on your daughter and say she doesn't want to continue the friendship. She's young and they may try to convince her otherwise.

I would say that as her mother, I forbid her from interacting with the child as a result of the bullying accusations, and that I would take further action if slander and r harassment continues.

I would probably go along the lines of 'my dd is upset at being called a bully and so I think it's best we let the dust settle for now.' Friendships change regularly at this age and Isobel and dad could make up next week/month if their own accord but if forced then resentment could build and the friendship end completely.

OP, I would come off all social media. Isobel sounds like a bad friend for your DD, and that's hard enough to navigate as it is, without the social media element.

MN is the only 'social media' I'm on, and I'm wary even of that. My DC are older (all 15+), and if arguments start up at school which then slide over to social media, the first thing I advise them to do is take a break from social media. Not as in 'blocking' people, but as in switching it off altogether. Absolutely no good can come of social media.

I get that you want to see what the other mum is saying, but it can only add fuel to it.

You need to be concentrating on your own DC in real life, and nothing else. They are only nine, and it will all blow over if it isn't given any oxygen. Obviously it's terribly upsetting to find your DD accused of being a bully. However, everyone will move on. Including your DD. And she may even end up being friends with Isobel again, IME.

If I were you, I would take a very deep breath, forget about Facebook, and be sympathetic but bright and breezy with DD. She needs to go back to school not really thinking about all of this, and for that, she needs you to plough on and not get too involved.

I say this as a terminal people-pleaser. I would never dream of "calling someone out" (I hate that expression - let's say "challenging anyone"). I would just want it all to go away.

The mother's a bully. The daughter's a bully (so no surprise she doesn't have any other friends). Your DD is beginning to find her wings and spread them, encourage her to do this. Tell the mother, firmly but politely, that you feel the friendship has changed now that the children are older. That it's a good thing for both of them to have a wider circle of friends.

Mute her on FB if you don't want to block - although my inclination would be to unfriend and block.

And if you feel you "have" to do something for her birthday with this girl, do it with the mother as well - maybe tea out somewhere, make it public. Or you take both of them to the cinema. So the girl can't be nasty to your DD as she won't be left alone with her. The other option is to have a group event and include the girl as one of many.

I suspect the mother doesn't know how manipulative her DD is. And now the girl is losing "control" of your DD she doesn't like it and is complaining to her mother who will only see her side of the story. And of course the mother won't see her DD in this way.

I know she's only 9 and has learnt this behaviour from the example set around her so it's not really her fault but first and foremost has to be your DD's happiness and mental wellbeing.

And I would definitely give the school a heads-up!

My DD is quite an anxious little soul, a rule follower and perfectionist. I think she found Isobel's rules quite reassuring to begin with, if that makes sense? That's part of the reason I feel sorry for Isobel - it is DD that has changed the goalposts, not her. I guess I should have stepped in, but DD seemed quite happy in the friendship... until she wasn't anymore

Your DD has outgrown Isobel, and that is a natural fact of life, children outgrow friendships from time to time, don’t let Isobel’s behaviour or her mothers prevent DD from continuing to develop her independence and making new friends. The mother seriously needs bring down to earth.

Wow! I could of written this post!! Absolutely do not entertain this child or her Mother outside of school. It will never end well. It will always be your DD’s fault. Her DD will always be the victim. I have been in this very situation and it’s very stressful. In my case, my DD can play with the other girl at school if she wants too but there are NO play dates. What I still cannot understand is why the Mother would want to encourage a friendship with someone she has publicly labelled a “bully”. School cannot understand it either.

I think you will need to address the Mum in some way in the near future. I agree saying that the friendship has suffered following the bullying accusations and also that you’re wary of play dates after the comments aimed at your DD on Facebook.

I wouldn’t block her on any medium for now as your children will still see each other at school and contact will be useful.

NO, just no. The fact of the matter is that your DD was interviewed by her own Headteacher due to a spurious bullying accusation. Whether this was perpetuated by the child or her batshit, toxic mother is irrelevant. Having anything to do with either of them demonstrates to your daughter that people can treat her horribly and essentially get away with it.

They are nine year old children. It has clearly run its course. Please talk to the school before the start of a new term and I’d have next to no contact with that crazy woman as anything you say will be twisted and used against you.

If she asks for a play date again say that won’t be possible, you’re busy.

Hi, I'm so sorry to hear that you are both going through this at the moment. I don't want to be mean to isabel but you need to listen to your dd. She doesn't want this child at her birthday and shouldn't feel pressured into having her.
The child's mother obviously has her own issues but they are not your problem.
Either ignore the woman or say calmly but firmly that the school are perfectly aware that your child is not a bully. You will not be trying to force her into a 'friendship' that she has moved on from and the woman an
D her daughter need to do the same.
Stand up for your girl.
Hope she has a wonderful party without isabel.

How in the world is this facilitated in a school at home? Surely school uniform and school dinners?

Maybe there's no uniform, and they take packed lunches....?!

The mother sounds unhinged. Completely.

But it's quite normal for 9YO girls to arrange to wear the same thing to school (we don't have uniforms), and, equally, to want to take the same lunch in.

I'm not justifying Isobel ordering your DD to do this, but maybe it's not as clear cut as it seems.

I agree with the PP who says there is some utterly unhinged advice on this thread.

Airing your dirty laundry on Facebook is never appropriate. And for those who think it is, people are judging you harshly.

I'd just text:

'In light of recent events, it's best if we give both girls some space. I hope the rest of the holidays go well for you'.

The text needs to be unambiguous and completely neutral.

And then, for heaven's sake, block the woman.

I wouldn't tell the mother anything, I'd block and ignore and get on with enjoying the holidays. People are so invested in what others think of them.

Also you need to prioritise your dd. I can guarantee in a few years you won’t even remember these peoples names but your dd will remember if you throw her under a busby inviting this child to appease these randoms.

Bus!

Excellent advice on here. Enjoyed reading it.

Horrible experience for you & your DD OP.

I feel sorry for Isobel in the sense that she is a product of what sounds like a very unhinged (scarily so) Mum & dysfunctional upbringing. Her Mum’s FB friends sound like-minded in their unhinged-ness.

I would try explain that aspect to your DD if you could, that families have different values & ways of behaving that would be considered absolutely wrong by other families, whilst also supporting her 100% in ceasing this friendship & having no further contact with this toxic situation.

From my experience with my DD (now about to start uni) throughout school, the biggest challenges with friends over the years have stemmed from those who behaved in a way acceptable within their own family & it’s unique dysfunction. It will be years before Isobel & all the Isobels realise that their behaviour was not normal. Or they may never. Haven’t we all had to deal with the horror of the Isobel's in the workplace at some point.

Best of luck OP. You’re doing a great job which has allowed your DD to thrive & grow
in confidence & establish her own identity.