Is DD BU to want to escape this friendship?

[LittleDoritt]

Sorry, this is so long for what is essentially a storm in a teacup!

DD is 9 and has had the same BFF, Isobel, for four years. Isobel is a very bossy, domineering child and DD is a follower rather than a leader so they've always worked well as a pair, although it's been difficult to watch sometimes as a parent - e.g. as Isobel has told DD what she is "allowed" to wear or have for lunch that day. Isobel has no other friends.

Over the course of the last six months DD has met lots of new friends through some extra curricular activities and has a new found confidence. She's started "breaking" Isobel's rules, and sometimes pairs up with other girls for lunch or games. She's gone to parties and play dates that Isobel hasn't received an invitation to. This has gone down so so badly! It's like it's started WW3.

I've been receiving a barrage of messages (daily) from Isobel's mum about how DD is deliberately excluding her and making her life a misery. I tried to explain that DD was just spreading her wings a bit and still valued her friendship but then the messages changed to "your DD is a bully, she should be excluded from school" I took the messages to the headteacher as I was horrified and he did a full investigation and found no evidence of any bullying. He was as baffled as I was as to what was going on in the mums mind.

I was looking forward to having a bit of a break from it all over the school holidays but I've been getting weekly messages from the mum about how important it is the girls repair their friendship and we must meet up.

The problem is that now DD knows she has been called a bully and interviewed by the headteacher etc she genuinely doesn't want anything to do with Isobel any more! Ive tried the MN favourite "Sorry, that's not going to work for us" but now every day this week there have been FB posts on the mum's wall about "little bitches" being horrible to her daughter and "mean girls getting their comeuppance". Her friends are writing things like "I'd give the mean little bitch a slap". I really don't want anything to do with these people, but all the while I'm getting text messages asking to organise a play date or a sleepover.

They've been inseparable for four years up until now and we live in a tiny town. I don't know how to extricate DD from this!

It's DDs birthday in a couple of weeks and she is adamant that she doesn't want to invite Isobel. The fallout from that would be enormous - she has been to every one of Isobel's parties, as well as all of her brothers and cousins parties as well. I don't know how to approach this!

Can you give me some suggestions please, as I will still bump into this woman multiple times a day and the awkwardness is going to be acute.

I agree you have to be reasonably direct with the Mum.

And don't engage in any social media or text blocking or anything like that.

It is 100% normal and to be expected that friendships change through childhood and no-one should feel the need to have to justify or enter into drama about that.

All you have t do is say your Dd has been developing new friends and now she is older she is making her own friendship choices, Tell you you are sorry that the bullying allegations were raised - you took this seriously because you want to know if your Dd is being anything other than reasonable, but following investigation the school have assured you that no bad behaviour went on. That you would never want to see your dd bully or exclude anyone, but she does have a right to allow friendships to blossom and fade. "It's a shame, but maybe the friendship has run its course, or maybe a break will be good for both of them"

I have to say that the thinly veiled intimidation and threats from the Mother would have me slamming the shutters down - her child may be learning a hard lesson but I wouldn’t risk my daughters emotional or physical well being as a teaching moment. She thinks saying she will slap your child is ok, I wouldn’t think her a suitable adult to be in care of my child

The weird thing here is that the mum knows you are a friend on FB. So she is posting about "little bitches" and "mean girls" but on the other hand is wanting your DD and hers to play. Might she not be referring to your DD but since your DD has got other friends, perhaps others are being awful to Isobel?

For that reason, if you reply, I wouldn't mention the FB stuff.

In reality though, she texted you and said your DD was a bully and should be excluded. It was her accusation. You dealt with that - correctly. So I think a good response would be "Sorry, DD doesn't want to be friends at the moment. She was terribly upset at you falsely accusing her of bullying Isobel. I think we all need to take a step back and have a break"

The break can be permanent or temporary - up to the DCs themselves.

I actually feel sorry for both the girls, it's great that your DD has made new friends though and I can of course see her PoV.

Isobel is only 9 though, maybe this is a lesson learned for her. Plus, just think Isobel has to live with her Mother.

She's started "breaking" Isobel's rules
Good girl :)

I've been receiving a barrage of messages (daily) from Isobel's mum about how DD is deliberately excluding her and making her life a misery. I tried to explain that DD was just spreading her wings a bit and still valued her friendship but then the messages changed to "your DD is a bully, she should be excluded from school"

Congratulations on forestalling Isobel's delightful mother by going direct to the Head & getting any bullying accusations investigated & dismissed.

FWIW - compare & contrast Isobel's behaviour with yours:
it's been difficult to watch sometimes as a parent
& yet you bit your tongue & didn't tear into a little girl. Unlike Isobel's mother - it's clear where Isobel gets her domineering, pushy attitude from, isn't it?

The fallout from that would be enormous
However - there already IS fallout, in the form of Isobel's Flying Facebook Monkeys, making horrible remarks without any access to the facts.
I think you might do well to forestall the whole thing, & neatly extricate your DD from the situation in one fell swoop. I would talk to Isobel's mother, point out how inappropriate the aggressive Facebook commentary is, let her know how baffled both you & the headteacher were by her unfounded accusations of bullying, & state that in the light of the hysteria & witchunting going on, that you prefer not to expose your daughter to any further vitriol.

Whether DD is aware of the vitriol is irrelevant at this stage: both Isobel & her Flying Monkeys should be ashamed of themselves for making unfounded allegations & writing about a child with such hysterical venom.

It's unlikely that Isobel's mum is going to accept any culpability, but with luck she may stop speaking to you in thwarted rage ;)
Awkward, yes - but is already IS awkward, & far better that the coterie blames you than your DD. Just keep repeated that you don't want DD associating with people who invent accusations & who are prepared to make unsubstantiated claims about, & violent threats to a child.

I'm not saying it will be easy, but it's sure as shit going to be easier that having Isobel & her vile mother in either of your lives.

Why would your daughter want to play with someone who thinks she is a bully?

Why would Isobel want to play with a bully?

I think Isobel's mum shot herself in the foot tbh.

Good god, there's some spectacularly shit advice on MN sometimes.

Op. Do not force your DD and this child on an outing to see "how it goes". Do not fail to hear your daughter's clearly stated, reasonable reaction here. Do not "call" this woman out on social media, you'll look petty with nothing to gain in an audience who's only heard her side, it'll escalate childishly.

Just send her a blunt text message saying "think the friendship has run its course,my DD says after the bullying accusations she'd prefer to step back"... Then block this woman! Ignore her if you bump into her, or prepare a line that you just keep repeating:

"My daughter needs to back away after the bullying accusations. Hope your daughter finds more friends... Oh look at the time,must dash"..
If she pushes for a meetup, just repeat!! "No, my daughter needs to back off on this friendship. Hopefully your daughter finds a okay date. Oh I'm super late today, bye."

Just cool responses, no justification, but be a rock for your daughter.

We teach girls to be people pleasers, not voice their opinions, be "kind" (aka being a doormat). This is an example of it potentially being a really toxic message when forced.

I've had a very similar situation, is Isobel and only child?

I would reply to the mum along the lines of "I was a little surprised at your suggestion for the girls to meet up since Isobel has felt that DD has been bullying her. At this stage, I think that they both need some time and space apart, so that they can move on and start afresh in September."

I wouldn't block on FB, as an outburst from the Mum could indicate that something has happened at school, something that was insignificant to your DD but not to Isobel (this was the case in my experience).

Also, there is no way that I would allow Isobel's Mum or family to be in charge of a playdate or sleepover.

Apologies - I have now seen @Bakingberry's post, which says what I was trying to put over - without the rambling on!
I'd tell her that the reason your DD doesn't what to be friends with her DD is because she accused her of being a bully. I'd also tell her that you're not going to let your DD be around the DD of a parent that calls a child a ' bitch' and says they are going to 'slap' them.

Just this, it's all you need do.
And never engage in any Facebook showboating.
I understand about not wanting to block - you may want to keep an eye, as well as screenshots, in case of further attacks & false allegations.

I'm another one who things that the whole 'your daughter is a bully' episode could be played to your advantage. Tell the mother that the whole thing made your dd very distressed, and she's scared that if she continues to play with Isobel the same thing could happen again, so, understandably, wants to stay away from Isobel in the future. You're sure she, the mother, understands and agrees it is for the best for both the girls.

Hope your DD has a wonderful birthday when it comes.

I would take the onus off your DD and say "the girls had a blip in their friendship, as girls do, however since you have accused my DD of bullying and have been posting nasty comments on FB regarding little bitches and mean girls which are clearly aimed at my DD, I have decided it's better that we all keep our distance. Please dont contact me again" This way your daughter gets an out, any questions / comments to your daughter can then be met with your daughter saying "my mum says no / wont let me"

After the mum’s behaviour I wouldn’t engage with her at all.

I wouldn't bother doing very much really. Take the screenshots if you prefer, but then just unfriend the mother on FB so that you don't have to be subjected to her spurious bullshit.

If she messages you then say that your DD has every right to decide herself who she wishes to play with. Tell her that the friendship looks to have run its course and that you expect her to now leave both you and your DD alone. Then block her number and just step right back from the whole issue. No need to do anything else at all.

It will probably then just fizzle out in a fairly short time. If it doesn't and is carried on between the girls at school then speak to the class teacher, but not to Isobel's mother - ignore her.

My sister had this exact situation with my lovely niece. Total domination by a larger more forceful loud bossy girl and when my niece tried to gently spread her wings all hell broke lose. My sister ended up moving her to a local private school where she is thriving.

Sounds like mum is not a good role model - she is bullying you. From that point of view I would be slightly sympathetic to Isobel but wouldnt want my daughter embroiled in that situation.

Do you see them outside of school - are you likely to bump into them locally. If not I would tell the mum you are away for a few weeks and when they go back to school tell her that you are encouraging your daughter to widen her circle of friends and avoid having a best friend.

Having a break from this friend until school goes back will hopefully give her space to not feel tied to this girl. Tell her to mix with lots of people and not feel she has to be exclusively Isobel's friend. I would probably not allow sleepovers and playdates at her house in case her mum harasses your daughter.

OP, your patience and level of understanding is astonishing. No way would I tolerate a couple of months of this sort of behaviour towards my DC let alone 4 years. Cut her off. Plus if you cut her off now, you wouldn't need to address the party issue which you seem to be having difficulties doing.

I feel a bit sorry for Isobel - she's 9!!! This is the time when you're supposed to be learning how to navigate friendships - if she's completely outcast then there's no lesson to be learnt.

Why should she learn lessons on friendship at OP's DD price? Aren't her parents supposed to explain and teach her that such behaviour will never attract any valuable friendships? It is also telling that Isobel has a single friend at 9!! I don't feel sorry for her. Although the main culprit here is the mother, such behaviour is learned and developed over time.

party. I wouldn't exclude even the most awful child in that way. Isobel has always had Number One slot on DDs invite list though, so no matter how small the celebration it will hurt her not to be included.

It may hurt her, but it will definitely let both her and her mother reflect on their behaviours. I would make it very clear as to why she is not invited, assuming that you'd still be in contact (particularly as the mother sounds like the type to enquire)

Erm cost lol. And ignore typos. My autocorrect is awful as have keyboard in a few languages.

OP,

With the greatest of respect,

I just can't believe you have allowed your DD to be controlled by another child for 4 years. Just awful.

You need to step up as a parent big time.

She does not want to be around Isobel.
Please try and have some respect for your child.

Take snapshots of everything.
Do NOT respond on FB to anything but keep copies of everything.

Telling the mother that "after the bullying accusations, I think it's better that the girls have space from each other over the holidays". No further discussion.

Do not be alone with this woman.

She and her friends believe it is ok to use awful language regarding a child and to threaten a child with violence.

Extraordinary behaviour.

Unfortunately OP, this is the result of you putting your desire for a quiet life ahead of your DD's interests.

Stay strong, do not entertain any requests from this awful woman and hopefully she will move on.

Whatever happens, the school needs to be informed and instructed to keep your child safe by not allowing Isobel to impose on your child again.

Take the holidays as a chance to strengthen all other friendships in and out of the class. If asked about Isobel and her mother, stick to the facts and say everything is being dealt with by the school.

That's part of the reason I feel sorry for Isobel - it is DD that has changed the goalposts, not her.

Why would you feel sorry for Isobel because your dd has “changed the goalposts”, @LittleDoritt? Your dd hasn’t changed the goalposts; she’s realised that her new friends don’t manipulate her and set “rules”! Not dissimilar to someone who thinks that their controlling spouse is just “looking after” them and “protecting” them when actually they are being manipulated and coerced.

If this was in 10 years time and your dd realised her partner was controlling/coercing/bullying her, would you say “I feel a bit sorry for x as dd has changed the goalposts”? I bloody hope not!

Feel sorry for Isobel for learning this manipulative and controlling behaviour at home, most likely from her awful Mother. Don’t feel sorry for her because your daughter now has nice, non-bullying friends!

Teach your dd to be civil to Isobel but that she can choose who she is friends with and that normal friendships are give and take, not bullying. I would definitely take screenshots of the FB posts and take them to the Head. Referring to 9 year olds as “bitches” and threatening to slap someone else’s child is completely unacceptable.

Put your dd first, not Isobel and her Mother.

I’d just say that given recent events and accusations, you and your DD want to cool the friendship as there’s been too much hurt on both sides, so you won’t be arranging any out of school meet ups. That also lays the foundations for her not coming to your daughter’s birthday celebration.

The Mum sounds unhinged, I wouldn't be giving her any explanations and I would just ignore it all and stay off Facebook.

I do find all tr advice saying the DD needs to be kind to Isobek maddening.

No, she doesn't need to be kind, she needs to be civil and polite when called for.

It also isn't mean to exclude Isabel from the horse riding party, for a start, why should your DD miss out, or have to put up with Isobel there when she's told you she doesn't want to? Secondly, at nine Isobel is likely old enough to understand that treating people badly has consequences, and that some of those are likely to be that the people you treated badly don't want to spend time with you anymore.

I'm a military wife, I understand being in small communities, but part of being a parent is modelling the courage to stand up for yourself and what's right, even when that means they'll be fallout, which as others have said there already is.

At this point you have the choice between making it a valuable life lesson for your DD, and helping her shore up her boundaries (and your's) or making a pig's ear of it and leaving your DD uncertain about how to handle similar situations in the future.

The fact that you let it go on for four years suggests you need to do some pretty major work on your own boundaries. Try and take it as an opportunity, and be thanking every deity there is that your DD did still feel able to stand up about this.

Urgh, sorry about typos!

And my mother was of the ignore it and it will go away school of thought.
It had disastrous consequences for me as it left me floundering and unsure in some significant situations as an older teen which I may have been able to prevent escalating if I'd had the confidence to be firm and decisive.

I agree with @IHeartKingThistle

The girls may well reconcile in the future. I would not get involved unless my child was distressed.

My daughter had a similarly bossy friend throughout school until year 5. We frequently discussed this friendship and my daughter said that she knew she could be a bully but she had some redeeming qualities too, that's why she wanted the friendship.

I dont tend to overly involve myself in my childrens friendships, beyond the counsel they seek, or distress they display, then I may get involved.

I dont see this as a situation currently requiring intervention. Just enable her to make her own decisions in awareness of possible consequences, she is 9, not 6.