driving someone who says they may become unconscious

[Alwaysannoyingsomeonesmomehow]

Situation is an urgent need to relocate someone and their vehicle that they can't drive, their several children and nine animals, (half are bigger ones) and possessions, from where they are now, to where they 'absolutely have to be on x date' on a very low budget.

They insist they cant fly, or split up animals and people.
Not all animals and children are expected to travel well and all will be packed into tight space. (one animal to be drugged with possible breathing side effects)
The journey they need to undertake is a minimum of 9 hours, easily up to 12.

Physical end of driving isn't an issue. (am experienced long term commercial driver and know my stuff and how to do it.)

Adult has various conditions, mainly undiagnosed, but no question that some very serious stuff seems to be happening to them.

Long history of them apparently losing consciousness and then ending up comatose from hours to days. They're saying it's normal and likely to happen at any point on this journey and all fine, the kids are used to them being unconscious (not asleep) for hours on end.

I and another driver were both originally fine to take (and care for) animals and stuff when people were all flying, but then got 'people now must travel in vehicle too' sprung on us.

We think the normalizing of someone being unconscious (and in front of the children) and being expected to say 'oh well' and carry on if that happens, is dangerous, irresponsible, and beyond acceptable.

But as a result, this (much loved) person will now turn to a non commercial driver who they don't know, who says they'll do it, and place everyone's lives in random hands.

Adult is saying being unconscious for all or part of the journey isn't life threatening, it's just how their life is, welcome to the choices they have to make all the time, and we're making too big a deal out of it. The children are all so used to it all etc. However these are the same children who can't be split from their parent,each other, or animals for the journey because of anxiety.

I get it, and bodily autonomy, but it feels like being made to accept the unacceptable because otherwise the situation may get worse.

We're now second guessing ourselves. I think we're NBU, but are we making to much out of it?

I've been on here over ten years and this has to be the most bizarre thread I have ever seen.

Yes, are they afraid of being rumbled?! Are there benefits involved which could be re assessed if a proper medical examination threw up inconsistencies?
What a bloody minefield to suck anyone else into...

No, that doesn’t work, they’d just choose not to pitch the fit... Very mysterious.

Further to my post about the relative being scared of you involving health services in an emergency I've had a further thought.....has anyone ever accompanied this relative to any medical appointments? Or seen any of their medical records/letters etc?

Is there a chance it could all be made up or deliberately srlf-induced?

A mental health problem? Something like Muchausens?

I bet it never happens when she is on her own .... only with an audience.

Is this from the Isle of Wight to mainland or the reverse? ...you are not allowed to remain in your vehicle during a ferry crossing for this

I’m only going to say this concerning the children:

I grew up in a dysfunctional that looks like The Waltons compared to this.

I was ‘loved’, I was well turned out and did exceptionally well at school. I was pleasant and easy going and anyone would have described me as ‘flourishing’.

I was miserable, didn’t tell anyone even though I had lots of family I could trust, because it felt like a betrayal of my mother.

Your relative makes my chronically depressed poor-decision-making mother look like a Nobel Laureate.

Do not be so sure those children are as happy and flourishing as they appear.

Hmmm.
Passing out, changing appearance, all this carry on about crossing water.
They are a vampire and I claim my £5. Get a mirror and see if they have a reflection.

It sounds like it was the fear/obligation/guilt combo that made you doubt your instincts about this in the first place. I hope you don’t do it. It sounds utterly reckless.

I’m sorry if I missed it but why does this person feel so adamantly that you must not seek medical help if they go unconscious? Have they explained that?

Just as an aside, I don't think passing out and recovering quickly, or failing the hand drop test/eye lash touching is necessarily a sign that they a person is making up their condition. I was genuinely collapsing, losing muscle tone, unable to speak or move. However, as far as I'm aware, I was able to hear at all times.

Once, I was talking to a doctor in out of hours, trying to explain what happened earlier that night. As I was describing it, my voice faltered and slowed. She said "is it happening again?" and I had time to nod before I collapsed. I heard her dialing 2222 and saying "adult collapse, query subarachnoid haemorrhage" and I heard the commotion as I was shifted onto a bed from the chair. I heard someone saying 'airway clear' and all the time I was thinking "but I'm alright! I'm fine!" I couldn't move and I couldn't see. The feeling came back in my limbs and then I could move again and see. Incidentally, it was the same sequence of events as when I had gas and air in labour - exactly the same process. I would say I was still conscious, even though I looked unconscious, because I remember the sequence of events and retained my hearing. I would imagine it was recorded as an unconscious episode, though.

True unconsciousness with loss of airway control would really worry me.

It sounds crazy but that they'll be much better off once they arrive at the new destination. Can you get/ hire another vehicle and follow the new driver they have , that way you can spread the load and if something untoward happens there's a back up véhicule.

If I agreed to drive but didn't agree to not intervene, they wouldn't have me driving.

Well, you can agree in principle. But if they go unconscious, of course you’d just make the best decision you could at the time, wouldn’t you?

Passing out, changing appearance, all this carry on about crossing water.
They are a vampire and I claim my £5. Get a mirror and see if they have a reflection

Honestly OP, this person is manipulative and abusive. The mystery illness, chaotic lifestyle and, most of all, the constantly-shifting goalposts all point to someone who has to be the centre of attention at all times, and will invariably ramp up the drama if other people aren't sufficiently upset and worried.

(Also, BTW, where is/are the other parent/parents of the DC? Has your relative killed and eaten them?)

I simply don't buy the unconscious part. If they fell into unconsciousness in a car seat, they would die from positional asphyxiation. Their head would fall forwards and compress the airways. It's not possible for them to just not follow the laws of physics when unconscious, and so I think they must be faking. Sorry, but this part is just total fabrication, on their part....not yours.

And furthermore, if you allowed a person to just die on 'your watch', do you think the police will believe the history you have given here? And you have been told explicitly not to summon help. Are you honestly going to possibly leave the kids alone with a dead person? Is the death of the parent the point at which help is allowed!? This crazy situation has deep, deep trouble written all over it.

I understand why someone might need to move on a certain date and want to get themselves somewhere where they have more support. What I don't understand is why she wouldn't focus on that and not on the journey.

The bit that gives away the drama llama aspect is "But we all have to travel together!!!" If you really had your kids' best interests at heart you'd ask someone else to take them and another adult to chaperone you and your unconscious thing.

what is all this NONSENSE!

Their only option was to relocate 9 (easily 12) hours away? Is it to be nearer a specialist hospital?

Lougle thank you. they’ve previously said there’s been times when they could hear what was going on and others when they’ve no idea, just missing a chunk of time. Thank you and to the other posters who’ve braved talking about medical conditions on here and what’s normal for them or not.

There is visibly something genuinely wrong under all this, outside of questions of unconsciousness or possible MH. Recent physical change has brought lots more testing and the suggestion it’s multiple things.

hatethinking you’ve hit on my first reactions. Just reactions of others left me second guessing everything.
The must (now) travel together, seems to mainly be about dwindling money and resources, and partly about fear of being split up, and any individual person, animal being left behind, and anxiety over it.

*I do believe there’s a genuine issue going on, but not necessarily as described.
I have questioned the definition of (still) falling ‘unconscious’ before. It definitely happened once, probably more than once on a smaller scale, (ie not for as long) and that there’s more frequently also becoming ‘unrousable’ and the two things are being called one and the same.

The fear of someone being left behind is pure paranoia
This is a car journey where no borders are crossed, right? Not a three week trek across the Gobi Desert led by camels?

This is all just weird!

Comatose for days then fine??? Nope!

answer to questions as far as I can:

-I’d laid out driving/animal welfare hours, my limits and laws, factoring emergency vet drop off if needed, (though hadn’t told them) when it was about moving animals. Me driving the following day factored in.
Impossible to schedule someone going to hospital and everyone waiting for however many hours before continuing. All schedules, organisation, driving hours, and animal welfare would go out of the window, never mind the stress on the children.
That was just one of the reasons why I wouldn’t be doing it.
Their view was ‘wouldn’t be split up, wouldn’t go to hospital, we just all need to get there, together. Don’t normally go anymore anyway, everyone just ignores it, kids used to it.’

-They don’t have an issue about being taken in normally, it’s happened a few times, kept in, then kicked out with follow ups. Happening now would cause something hard to fix because out of time, and money, and a lot sunk into the new life.

-Been accompanied before, kept in, visited etc. Accompanied to appointments repeatedly over time, but issues with continuation of care, tbf, from all sides.

-No, benefits aren’t involved but tenancy completion date in person is.

-*First major event was definitely real, was alone, recorded unconscious by paramedic, in ICU, then stayed in hospital for some time. Many years later still going in and out.

-They do have a consultant handover between areas and appointments arranged in the new area.

-Can’t stay where they are. Notice given, owner’s made plans.

-‘Constantly shifting goalposts’ seem to be more about poor timing, some poor planning, slowly running out of money and using unreliable help rather than making it all about them, but I’m going of the known facts I have rather than feelings.
Original plans where sensible but expensive. Then prices skyrocketed out of budget, and poorer planning started.

-The relocation is to access care and everything properly followed up. Their reason for choosing relocation there, which doesn’t fit with the idea of trying to hide things or totally fabricating.

headintheclouds Agree it's paranoia, but apparently 'anxiety' is a real condition these days.

Is it a circus?

Take them, if she becomes unconscious take her to A&E no ifs, buts or maybes. She doesn’t need to know this is the deal.

Take children on to new home with animals. Collect mother later once discharged and take her to new house. There’s another adult there who can look after the kids in the meantime.