driving someone who says they may become unconscious

[Alwaysannoyingsomeonesmomehow]

Situation is an urgent need to relocate someone and their vehicle that they can't drive, their several children and nine animals, (half are bigger ones) and possessions, from where they are now, to where they 'absolutely have to be on x date' on a very low budget.

They insist they cant fly, or split up animals and people.
Not all animals and children are expected to travel well and all will be packed into tight space. (one animal to be drugged with possible breathing side effects)
The journey they need to undertake is a minimum of 9 hours, easily up to 12.

Physical end of driving isn't an issue. (am experienced long term commercial driver and know my stuff and how to do it.)

Adult has various conditions, mainly undiagnosed, but no question that some very serious stuff seems to be happening to them.

Long history of them apparently losing consciousness and then ending up comatose from hours to days. They're saying it's normal and likely to happen at any point on this journey and all fine, the kids are used to them being unconscious (not asleep) for hours on end.

I and another driver were both originally fine to take (and care for) animals and stuff when people were all flying, but then got 'people now must travel in vehicle too' sprung on us.

We think the normalizing of someone being unconscious (and in front of the children) and being expected to say 'oh well' and carry on if that happens, is dangerous, irresponsible, and beyond acceptable.

But as a result, this (much loved) person will now turn to a non commercial driver who they don't know, who says they'll do it, and place everyone's lives in random hands.

Adult is saying being unconscious for all or part of the journey isn't life threatening, it's just how their life is, welcome to the choices they have to make all the time, and we're making too big a deal out of it. The children are all so used to it all etc. However these are the same children who can't be split from their parent,each other, or animals for the journey because of anxiety.

I get it, and bodily autonomy, but it feels like being made to accept the unacceptable because otherwise the situation may get worse.

We're now second guessing ourselves. I think we're NBU, but are we making to much out of it?

ChicCroissant I know I'm too close, it's why I wanted to get opinions of if this was as crazy as it felt.

I can see there's a big control aspect, just rather less sure if it's about MH or from desperation to make it happen when it's all falling apart and more standard control freakery.

I balked at driving the people, but If I agreed to drive but didn't agree to not intervene, they wouldn't have me driving.

Just curious OP, I presume your male, but come across eloquently and more female... know it doesn’t make any difference, just wondering.
As for your situation, I “ get “ you, I completely understand your predicament. I think I would actually drive them TBH. I’d Hate myself for being an enabler though. She’s going to be driven one way or another and with your experience her, the DC, animals are safest in your hands. She’s put you in a proper shitty position and I’d be furious with her because all this could have been avoided...she probably always suspected if worst came to worst you could be relied upon to sort shit out. Poor you.

Okay, I’ve changed my mind by your last post. No medical intervention, no help. Simple as that.

She could easily pass away from blocked airways, etc,etc...

And...back to the beginning of the thread...you’d never get her across the ferry unconscious...

No medical intervention, no help. Simple as that. that's pretty much what I said, then surprised to find others saying I was OTT as this person lived like this.

You agreed to situation A, they will now only accept situation B. You accepted situation A after thinking through practicalities and deciding that you could work within those parameters. You do not feel you can work within the parameters of situation B.

Leave them to it.

Nicely put.

It probably boils down to - would you be allowed to cross a border with a person who appears to be unconscious?
The answer is very likely to be no, and attempting to will attract just the the sort of attention this person is determined to avoid.

How would border control know they’re unconscious? They’ll just be to be asleep.

OP I don’t mean to go on at you but you don’t still believe they’re genuinely unconscious for hours do you?

You can’t cross a border asleep, in case you’ve been drugged and are being transported against your will!

Maybe it’s not actually cross borders, though, given the animals? Who knows, there really isn’t enough information to give a firm opinion on.

You can to Wales/ Scotland or Ireland and I don’t suspect they’re going elsewhere

Are they actually moving from one country to another eg Ireland to UK? Does the other parent(s)know about the move and they have consented?
Does the place they are going to know about the animals coming too?

Well, a ferry to a Ireland with a car full of animals is definitely out, so we’re basically just talking about a long drive with no expectation of meeting with officialdom?
That’s different, and doable. It’d be so much easier if op could give plain facts, though, it’s hardly all that outing.

RTFT... OP said early on in the thread that there are no borders to be crossed.

Excuse me! There’s a lot of chaff to be sifted through...

I’d agree to transport the children and belongings but not the drugged animals or the person with medical problems that just be ignored.

Small animal in a cage ( like a hamster ) not drugged is fine.

Dog or cat in appropriate travel containers etc , well supervised by another ( not driving, non sick ) adult - fine.

Drugged animals need supervised by a qualified ( non driving, non sick ) adult.

I would not be willing to take responsibility for NOT getting medical help for an unconscious person in my vehicle . I don’t care what they said when they were conscious, once they could no longer make a decision it becomes my choice and not theirs. Once they are in hospital they can then decline medical treatment if they wish.

I don’t want to be the person telling the police and then the inquest / fatal accident enquiry that I didn’t get medical help because the I thought the deceased didn’t want me to. So I let them die in front of their kids and did nothing. Oh and no, I have nothing in writing , you have to trust me.

I work with people who often need medical care for potentially life threatening issues and often refuse it. As soon as we think they are no longer competent to decide, we call an ambulance.

Sometimes they recover enough to refuse care , which is their choice.

Sometimes the ambulance service save their life ( they are heroes, ever last one of them, if you know one give them 🍫🍹from me ) .

This is definitely a case for getting a third party involved. Social services probably. NHS patient transport would be available for the ill person if they were moving to accommodate a medical appointment/hospital attendance but guessing that's not the case at the moment?

OP you have my profound sympathy (as do this person's children). It is incredibly difficult to cope with a manipulative, abusive cunt in the family.
My best advice for you now is: consider what would happen if this household doesn't, in fact, make the journey. That might be the best option all round...

OP what is the problem according to your family member with getting medical help should she fall unconscious in the vehicle? Why is she willing to risk SO much? I don’t get it, sorry if I’ve missed something obvious?

I knew someone like this. They would 'collapse' when things got too much for them to cope with, at work especially,as they wanted to be medically declared unfit for work, when they were about to be sacked for having too much sick time. Never kept in hospital, never any cause found, it was all a bit sad really, especially for the children. Has now been diagnosed with a mental health disorder and is on benefits. Looks the best i have ever seen them now the pressure is off, but children have all left home and they are lonely and have no one...still really sad

The “absolutely have to be on x date” sounds like something to do with housing. Maybe they don’t actually have the option to remain where they are without incurring costs they can’t meet.
It’s like one of those games (sorry, op) where you have to unlock puzzles along the way and only the info relating to the very next stage is revealed at any one time.
What are the repercussions of them remaining where they are, op?
Is it a possibility?

Acyually, that's a good point....why does this relative not want you to call for medical help if they go unconscious??

Surely getting immediate assistance in the form of an ambulance or going straight to the nearest A&E with them unconscious in the car might start the ball rolling with some proper medical intervention, tests etc to get to the bottom of the problem.

Is this what they're scared of?