driving someone who says they may become unconscious

[Alwaysannoyingsomeonesmomehow]

Situation is an urgent need to relocate someone and their vehicle that they can't drive, their several children and nine animals, (half are bigger ones) and possessions, from where they are now, to where they 'absolutely have to be on x date' on a very low budget.

They insist they cant fly, or split up animals and people.
Not all animals and children are expected to travel well and all will be packed into tight space. (one animal to be drugged with possible breathing side effects)
The journey they need to undertake is a minimum of 9 hours, easily up to 12.

Physical end of driving isn't an issue. (am experienced long term commercial driver and know my stuff and how to do it.)

Adult has various conditions, mainly undiagnosed, but no question that some very serious stuff seems to be happening to them.

Long history of them apparently losing consciousness and then ending up comatose from hours to days. They're saying it's normal and likely to happen at any point on this journey and all fine, the kids are used to them being unconscious (not asleep) for hours on end.

I and another driver were both originally fine to take (and care for) animals and stuff when people were all flying, but then got 'people now must travel in vehicle too' sprung on us.

We think the normalizing of someone being unconscious (and in front of the children) and being expected to say 'oh well' and carry on if that happens, is dangerous, irresponsible, and beyond acceptable.

But as a result, this (much loved) person will now turn to a non commercial driver who they don't know, who says they'll do it, and place everyone's lives in random hands.

Adult is saying being unconscious for all or part of the journey isn't life threatening, it's just how their life is, welcome to the choices they have to make all the time, and we're making too big a deal out of it. The children are all so used to it all etc. However these are the same children who can't be split from their parent,each other, or animals for the journey because of anxiety.

I get it, and bodily autonomy, but it feels like being made to accept the unacceptable because otherwise the situation may get worse.

We're now second guessing ourselves. I think we're NBU, but are we making to much out of it?

Someone that’s comatose for days at a time
Obviously shouldn’t be in charge of several kids and animals. The weird transport story is irrelevant

dangerous, irresponsible and beyond acceptable. There really does seem to be bits missing from your story, and as such any opinions you get on here are worthless, really, don’t you think?*

No, I stand by feeling driving someone who says they might become unconscious during a long journey inc in front of their children and this should be totally ignored, and there's an animal who might develop breathing difficulties as a result of being drugged, would be "dangerous, irresponsible and beyond acceptable" However you've already told me my descriptive language is the problem.

I don't think there's anything relevant missing, and what I wanted was to see if others felt the same way or if lots of disabled people arrived saying "this sort of stuff is what we have to live with, people with various conditions manage their lives around this sort of stuff all the time, you're being OTT saying it's out of order."

Given the responses I'd say many opinions have been helpful for me to resolve things in my own head.

To be absolutely fair, taking all the weirdness out of it, and it at face value then yes, if this person is always becoming unconscious, their children are used to it and it’s harmless, then who cares if they’re unconscious for parts of your journey? It’s just a normal day for them isn’t it? You don’t have to do anything but wait for them to “come round” as presumably, their children do too.

Not a clue what on earth is going on here...

Maybe you could go to the doctor with her and get some medical advice. If the doctor is happy for her to be in transit whilst unconscious, then i guess that might change things.

OP, basically, YANBU to refuse to drive a vehicle full of scared kids, caged animals and one fainting, puking, attention-seeking drama llama on a long journey.

YABU, a bit - and I get that it is going to be difficult to be the one who steps up, calls this person the cunt they are and involves the authorities for the sake of the DC (and, indeed, the animals) - in not going back to SS or other professionals to alert them to the fact that your relative is not a fit person to be in charge of children at present.

And if you think I am being harsh, read your own OP. You originally agreed to drive the DC and pets (which is, in itself, quite a big ask as I doubt that the drama llama offered you anything in the way of petrol money). The person has to move on a set date, because drama; they have been bailed out by the wider family once already but pissed the money up the wall and then more drama. And you agreeing to transport the DC and pets, while difficult enough, wasn't enough drama for this cunt. Now they have to come in the vehicle as well, and will undoubtedly pitch a fit the minute they are not the centre of attention - and if this ghastly road trip ends with a pile up on the side of the road because of screaming kids and the cunt flinging themselves into your lap because 'unconsciousness', and therefore blues and twos all the way to the nearest hospital, and the rest of the poor bemused mugs in your family having to pawn their tellies to come to the rescue... well that still won't be enough drama for this cunt, will it?

My friend suffered a brain injury and as a result she will often go into a ‘coma’ for several days. Her body shuts down and she’s unaware of her surroundings but during this time, her ‘dreams’ are so detailed and she is living a life with no injury. She doesn’t go to hospital when these happen.

@ReanimatedSGB

I think this is about as accurate as it gets.

If a person says she is prone to lose consciousness, and remain so for days, the that person is either
Lying
Or
Not in any way safe to be transported normally
Whatever responsibility the OP may feel for her, she would be mad to get involved in this.
The ill person should be transported by ambulance-I know the St John's Ambulance Brigade will do this for a non-commercial fee.
The OP would be, literally, crazy to be sucked into this kind of thing.

Several children, nine animals (one who has to be drugged for the journey) and an adult who slips in and out of consciousness

You cannot be serious about transporting them overseas - can you? WTF!

I wasn't actually asking if people believed this person to be genuinely unwell, with what, or could anyone come up with a different solution, (and feel pretty crap at some of the speculation I've caused,) just if I was right to find the whole idea dangerous, irresponsible, and beyond acceptable because others reactions off-board and how normalized everything seemed to be left me beginning to doubt myself.

The problem is that if your relative is surrounded by people who have normalised a situation that is so obviously dangerous and unacceptable, then goodness only knows what else about it they have normalised to you. You didn't say how many adults are involved besides the one relative, but that relative is one very sick puppy (and I don't just mean physically) and nothing s/he says can be taken at face value. And neither can anything else that the other adults say.

If these people can make you doubt yourself in a situation that you know is batshit dangerous, that means they have been pulling are the wool over your eyes.

To be absolutely fair, taking all the weirdness out of it, and it at face value then yes, if this person is always becoming unconscious, their children are used to it and it’s harmless, then who cares if they’re unconscious for parts of your journey? It’s just a normal day for them isn’t it? You don’t have to do anything but wait for them to “come round” as presumably, their children do too

What about the airway problem? What if this is the occasion when the unconsciousness is due to something dangerous and OP has ignored it?

ReanimatedSGB And if you think I am being harsh, read your own OP. You originally agreed to drive the DC and pets (which is, in itself, quite a big ask as I doubt that the drama llama offered you anything in the way of petrol money). The person has to move on a set date, because drama; they have been bailed out by the wider family once already but pissed the money up the wall and then more drama. And you agreeing to transport the DC and pets, while difficult enough, wasn't enough drama for this cunt. Now they have to come in the vehicle as well, and will undoubtedly pitch a fit the minute they are not the centre of attention - and if this ghastly road trip ends with a pile up on the side of the road because of screaming kids and the cunt flinging themselves into your lap because 'unconsciousness', and therefore blues and twos all the way to the nearest hospital, and the rest of the poor bemused mugs in your family having to pawn their tellies to come to the rescue... well that still won't be enough drama for this cunt, will it?

I'm actually listening more carefully than you might realise. However your vitriol, inventing facts, name calling etc, and making huge assumptions are clouding much of the more intelligent bits of what your trying to say.

No I didn't agree to drive the DC.
I agreed to drive pets and possessions. I was concerned about their journey and started getting into details to make sure this was practical and everything they needed was going to be in place. That's when the information about one needing to be drugged and possible breathing difficulties emerged. Then I got hit with actually it would now have to be the DC's and unwell adult in there too, and on their terms if they became unwell, and I balked.

You're seeing it as all about their drama. I agree there is much drama, (which I was being warned exists and should apparently accept and ignore) but the driving force for them appears to be keeping cost down to what they actually have and keeping all family members together on the journey. (animals as family members)

Actually they where paying the fuel - that's you trying to paint their character again.
The subsidizing I would have been doing was around the animals having their own vehicle. (At that point dc's and adult weren't part of any arrangement)

They have to go on the set date because having left it too long they're going to lose where they're going if they don't, which is the pull, not because of all the things you've imagined and inserted, and they're right at the end of the notice period they gave which is the push.

They haven't pissed their money against the wall - more assumptions. They have failed to action a sensible plan in time, tried to fix it, got the timing wrong and the whole thing collapsed, leaving not great plans, then stupidly desperate ones, and yes that's all not great, but rather different from the scenario you're trying to paint about them.

The big fear wasn't huge drama on the road, if things where like that it would be easy enough (and easy to spot as to what might be coming) - straight to a+e and leave them and get everyone else to their destination.
The fear was that actually they would allow anything to happen and were trying to make me accept that, and agree not to intervene, in order to get their plan of them, dc's, animals and vehicle to the new place, together, and there was apparently no way in which anyone could travel separately.

In that, I agree this is all about their control.(or possibly them creating a situation where they now cant go)

Teddybear45 it sounds absolutely nothing like uncontrolled diabetes. What a load of rubbish you talk

they can't be crossed, or they will pass out or come out in a nasty rash or have a howling spell that shatters windows
That's not been my experience. There have been hard conversations in the past, it's not resulted in worse or better health, or dramas, just hurt and damage and a slow stepping back after SS made it clear they didn't have issues and relative needed support not judgement, and nothing I did really helped.
Throughout all of it the children have seemed to do well and flourish, which is actually the biggest thing that influences me. (and possibly SS)

if your relative is surrounded by people who have normalised a situation that is so obviously dangerous and unacceptable, then goodness only knows what else about it they have normalised to you.

It isn't just family surrounding them though. SS, Dr's, hospitals, neighbors, all the kids education leisure staff and all their safeguarding systems, have been repeatedly involved and all seem to be fine with it, and yes there have been many hospital stays and consequent hospital social workers liaising with main SS over many years, suspicion fallen, involvement, and I'm not going into detail but various things have been raised repeatedly from many different directions, and been investigated several times sometimes additional resources given, but always case closed.

In MN world however, this just doesn't and can't happen and anyone who says that's whats been going on, isn't telling the truth or has colluded etc.

There's only one potential 'telly pawning' family member.
Everyone else long ago understood that whatever is going here, structural changes are needed and we can't make them happen. It seemed the adult had recognized that and was relocating to where that could happen.

Yes I love the person you have summarily decided is a "cunt."
Yes I've had many concerns over the years because there are children, yes in the face of people around them and randoms seeing no issue in doing what I think is crazy, I'm capable of thinking maybe I'm wrong and being judgmental, disablist, controlling etc

No I don't feel special to this person and they don't try to make me.

and 'those poor bloody kids' are well aware of places and people both formally and informally they can turn to and be heard.

It sounds like they need a whole lot of support they're not getting because they don't meet thresholds I think you're doing the right thing by refusing the plan as it is. Maybe that will enable a more sensible plan. Have you checked if they can truly accommodate the various animals at the new location? 9 animals is a lot.

It sounds like they need a whole lot of support they're not getting because they don't meet thresholds

That's what it's always looked like and been presented as.
Situation bad enough for repeated investigation, not bad enough for action. (beyond home help at one point)

Medical stuff concerning enough for large input of resources, not concerning enough to be properly followed through and resolved.

I haven't seen it but new property is much larger .
Theoretically area is more likely to feel they meet criteria for help, and a more concentrated medical set up so less likely to fall through gaps, more able to get to appointments etc, all chosen by adult to try and get everyone into a better situation.
From what I can see, if this person didn't want a close eye on them and the children, they couldn't pick a worse place to go to.

beyond allocating home help at one point)

Change in appearance is skin colour and severe jaundice????? Acute organ failure of some sort???

Not quite sure what the ???? is about.

Again I'm not going to say exactly what, but it' isn't something that could be faked, brought on, caused by drugs/alcohol, botox, lack of exercise, etc.
As described before it's equivalent to very noticeable bone deformity developing, and while I've never seen the 'unconsciousness,' this is clearly real, there the whole time, and getting worse. (as well as being investigated) It has made me question my cynicism.

In MN world however, this just doesn't and can't happen and anyone who says that's whats been going on, isn't telling the truth or has colluded etc.

We do know it happens but you hadn't mentioned any outside agencies before. There are some damaged families who stay well below the radar and you presented yours like one of those.

various things have been raised repeatedly from many different directions, and been investigated several times sometimes additional resources given, but always case closed.

The case should still be on file though and it can be re-opened as often as necessary and more resources put in. Relocating the whole family elsewhere - away from their existing formal support network - might be a bit of a red flag. I hope there's a plan to involve schools, social services etc at their destination?

Anyway I'm glad you've decided the travel plan is not on.