driving someone who says they may become unconscious

[Alwaysannoyingsomeonesmomehow]

Situation is an urgent need to relocate someone and their vehicle that they can't drive, their several children and nine animals, (half are bigger ones) and possessions, from where they are now, to where they 'absolutely have to be on x date' on a very low budget.

They insist they cant fly, or split up animals and people.
Not all animals and children are expected to travel well and all will be packed into tight space. (one animal to be drugged with possible breathing side effects)
The journey they need to undertake is a minimum of 9 hours, easily up to 12.

Physical end of driving isn't an issue. (am experienced long term commercial driver and know my stuff and how to do it.)

Adult has various conditions, mainly undiagnosed, but no question that some very serious stuff seems to be happening to them.

Long history of them apparently losing consciousness and then ending up comatose from hours to days. They're saying it's normal and likely to happen at any point on this journey and all fine, the kids are used to them being unconscious (not asleep) for hours on end.

I and another driver were both originally fine to take (and care for) animals and stuff when people were all flying, but then got 'people now must travel in vehicle too' sprung on us.

We think the normalizing of someone being unconscious (and in front of the children) and being expected to say 'oh well' and carry on if that happens, is dangerous, irresponsible, and beyond acceptable.

But as a result, this (much loved) person will now turn to a non commercial driver who they don't know, who says they'll do it, and place everyone's lives in random hands.

Adult is saying being unconscious for all or part of the journey isn't life threatening, it's just how their life is, welcome to the choices they have to make all the time, and we're making too big a deal out of it. The children are all so used to it all etc. However these are the same children who can't be split from their parent,each other, or animals for the journey because of anxiety.

I get it, and bodily autonomy, but it feels like being made to accept the unacceptable because otherwise the situation may get worse.

We're now second guessing ourselves. I think we're NBU, but are we making to much out of it?

This sounds utterly bonkers. I wouldn't touch any of it with a bargepole. In fact, I'd be calling Children's Services, or whatever it's called, and getting those children some proper support away from this so-called parent.

I'm very sceptical of this person's claims about regularly being unconscious/in a coma for days on end. How does s/he go to the toilet in that time? Get food/nutrition?

But do SS know about the current 'unconsciousness'? If that's true, then the children are at risk now. If it's being faked - the children are also at risk.

You are being negligent by not getting professional help.

Since there is an adult at the receiving end, I would offer to take the possessions, children and animals that can travel without being drugged. Encourage the owner to rehome the animal that needs to be drugged as its highly unfair to put an animal at risk of death to just transport it. Then its up to the adult to get treatment so they can travel safely, maybe by plane once stabilised. It should be easier for the adult to stay than the whole shooting match of them all.

It is nonsense to say that there is no option. The adult is being irrational and selfish. Don't let your love for them make you buy into their unreality.

Stop thinking about what this person wants and just think about what's best for the children. You could refuse to have anything to do with this. Or you could take the children yourself and leave the adult to sort themself and the animals out. Or you could call whatever the local equivalent of social services may be, and let them deal with the whole mess.

There has been past involvement and questions about ability to cope, when younger assistance to cope with parenting because of medical needs, was given, that's all gone.

Well then it needs to come back now, doesn't it? Because the adult is clearly not coping, physically or mentally. Someone needs to call them back in.

Aside from the chaos and the emotional effect living with it all surely must have, the children are actually very visibly clean, loved, and happy and get on well. You wouldn't think they came from a dysfunctioning life.

But they do come from a dysfunctioning life, and it's time someone stepped in for them.

I;m sorry OP, but I don't think you transporting these people and animals around is the answer.

No way would I get involved with this.

There are strict defra guidelines for travelling animals and a heavily sedated horse that goes down could cause a serious accident in a trailer or lorry and would no doubt need a vet for emergency treatment or pts.surely it would be better to leave a horse here and work on calm loading and safe travelling rather than sedating a horse that might need a top up en route or collapse.

I'm wondering why this horrible self-obsessed narcissist is 'much loved', tbh. This person needs a fucking good kicking. I bet they have had you and the rest of the family running round in circles for as long as you've known them, because any time they don't get their own way they faint or puke or endager their DC and animals. I suppose they are now running from either court-appointed bailiffs or drug dealers or something similar.
Honesetly, the best thing to do would be to take the DC and the animals, ensure they are placed in the hands of someone responsible, and let the parasite sink or swim. If this person has now develped a health condition after years of pretending to have one, that's just karma in action, isn't it?

Treelop I think if you row across with the chicken first, you can leave the Fox with the grain and work back from there.
I genuinely thank you for that! It's the first smile in it all.

Also thanks for the arm drop test info. I've witnessed them clearly unwell, at other times woozy, or changing color rapidly, all sorts, but until recently nothing that couldn't be explained and I've never seen them unconscious.
There's an accepted narrative around them of more serious stuff, backed up by others and SS have been around and seemed to be accepting of a genuine medical issue.

The children are clearly looked after, and apart from my concerns over being told the cat could get breathing issues through medication, the animals (that I've seen) are shiny and in good condition.

I'm going to ask for the thread to be taken down before it upsets someone, but thank you to everyone for their opinions and perspectives, it's helped me feel more that my original 'you have to be kidding' stance was perfectly reasonable.

I don't think the thread is upsetting anyone?

Apart from you, who seems unwilling to see this for what it is - which is an absolute shit show where children and animals are being failed.

Really, you need to flag up with SS and maybe animal charities.

There's an accepted narrative around them of more serious stuff, backed up by others and SS have been around and seemed to be accepting of a genuine medical issue.

SS wont help if they only know half the story, and "austerity" makes a very convenient story about why they're not involved. It sounds as if there's been quite a cover-up by other family members of everything else aside from those "genuine medical issues".

Completely and utterly agree with @ReanimatedSGB

This thread should not be taken down. The posters have taken time and effort to respond and it’s unbelievably rude to waste their time by just having the whole thing deleted

I suppose they are now running from either court-appointed bailiffs or drug dealers or something similar.

TBF no, they went to stay somewhere temporarily to get personal support and review the whole situation because things wern't getting better.
A plan for them to move to a place where they could get permanent help and better care was created and actioned. They then didn't move when they should have and used up moving money and messed things up.

It has occurred to me they don't want to go and the making everything impossible or immoral is part of it.

Immoral??

Is there some sort of religious aspect to this?

It all sounds ever so slightly exaggerated on the part of the unwell adult.

A cat might need a mild sedative prescribed by a vet if it is not a good traveller. It’s unlikely to mean it’s knocked out and unconscious, just sleepy and docile.

An adult might have something like narcolepsy which would cause them to ‘go unconscious’ - but they dint mean that absolutely literally, they mean they’re in an unresponsive state but still breathing etc.

To be honest, if you don’t have chapter and verse on the medical history then I think it is absolutely fine to say you’re uncomfortable with it.

But I think it all sounds over-exaggerated and could well not be as awful as it first sounds. Apart from the fact that the ‘adult’ in question is clearly an absolute fucking liability and their children need help.

Change in appearance, passing out- could she be on some hardcore drugs?

I can leave it up, but people are imagining a lot of things and I'm fully expecting it to get out of hand.

Cherrycoke no intention to be rude, but I did put it up to get advice, which I do very much appreciate, not as entertainment and fodder for people to start imagining situations to add to an admitted car crash.
Do you feel that your times been wasted when the person who asked for opinions and perspectives to help them resolve if they where BU or not, says they've definitely resolved it?

The SpottedZebra actually I do see it as a car crash that I thought was about to relocate and hopefully get a bit better, and am pretty shocked at what was then proposed.
SS haven't had an issue in the past, and I know they haven't been interested in offering help more recently hence relocating to somewhere that will, and regardless of what it may sound like, the children have visibly been loved, well looked after, clean, smiling and appear to be thriving all the way through. It's me who questions what it must be like to witness what they apparently take for granted, and there are no sign of issues with any of the animals I've seen either. either.

“Do you feel that your times been wasted when the person who asked for opinions and perspectives to help them resolve if they where BU or not, says they've definitely resolved it?”

Yes I’m afraid I do. If everyone did that the forum would be pretty empty of content

Sounds like relative has really messed things up and is now broke, unwell and putting her children and animals in an awful situation. Whether it's their own fault or not, is it not time to overrule their rules regarding the trip back and say no. You will bring children and small animals over to receiving adult while unwell relative stays until fit to travel.

Bear in mind if this adult is manipulative it can fairly easy to palm SS off and day what they want to hear. More often than not it’s someone else who highlights the problems.

Could the unconciousness be non epileptic attacks? My mum has these and has for years and years as a response to stress and anxiety (and many, many other things too) - it looks like a full epileptic seizure but it isn’t , she just drops and has full body twitching, loss of bladder control, tongue biting, etc .

It can go on for two or three hours and can happen daily ... but after about 45 minutes with no full ‘awareness’ I’d be phoning an ambulance as per GP advice .

She absolutely doesn’t lose full consciousness though most of the time - she can recall quite well what’s been said, before , sometimes during, and after, can move you away, resist help, cough, clear her mouth etc ... but it certainly looks like she’s totally out of it ...

You get used to it fairly quickly and I tend to say to onlookers that I’m not at all concerned as it’s so everyday, it’s normal to me, and has been all of my life ; HCPs are the same , ie not concerned ...

Just wondering if it’s something like that .

Even if it is though I wouldn’t want to help in your situation, my mum on her own is enough to look after - never mind adding others to the picture and you’d really need someone who’s used to it , knows what they’re doing and able to give her their full attention/stop for medical help if needed . Not worth the risks of not doing it properly !

I’m honestly more concerned about the children and animals being packed into a tight space. Is that an every seat taken van where all the kids have seat belts and the animals are in proper carriers? Or is it everyone thrown into the back of a truck? Or more likely something in between?

If the children and animals aren’t being properly secured, social services needs to be contacted

Passthecherrycoke, ok I take that on board. I am worried that I've said to much and some people are busy jumping on all sorts and not reading whats actually been said.

immoral? to me it would be immoral to expose children to an adult who lost consciousness and was ignored for the rest of a long journey or drug an animal for travel if it risks having breathing difficulties, because it doesn't have any choice or ability to object and it was a surprise that the person would apparently consider it, even if desperate because they normally put children animals needs high on the agenda.

As said before the change in appearance isn't something you could do to yourself, its clearly a medical issue and no definitely not a drug user.

No idea where religion would come into anything but also no.

I'm not trying to minimize the situation at all. What I got hit with has troubled and upset me.
However this person has done a surprisingly good job in difficult circumstances outside of whatever is going on with them medically or not.
Whether it fits with what people want to believe or not, knowing how the children present I'm not actually particularly surprised that SS have always seen them as a family in need of back up assistance, not supervision or intervention.
Huge numbers of visibly neglected children around the area and they just aren't anywhere on the scale.

As an aside, the adult should sell their vehicle as they're clearly never going to be fit enough to drive it again. That should help with moving money.

What a very bizarre situation.

Oh, immoral is your take on it, not theirs.