Really upset about dh roaring at our 4 year old

[Westside1]

I have previously posted about this but I’m really shook up tonight. Dh was bringing dd in car earlier and I just happened to open front door as they’d forgotten bag when I witnessed him roaring at her and her really distressed in car. She wanted her music put on and he wanted to listen to match. He was driving my car and I always let her listen to her music. She was practically hyperventilating and he was roaring at her to stop. Windows were slightly open and I could hear all this. I got in beside her until she calmed down and then they left. I wanted to let her stay at home but he insisted she would be fine. She was fine when she came home. I’m so upset all evening and can hardly look at him. If I witnessed a parent doing this to their child I’d be appalled but to see my own child being treated like this is torture. He keeps telling me I’m over reacting, that she was just playing up so there’s no point arguing with him as we are going around in circles. He had a go at me as I’m not strict enough with her etc.

Am I overreacting? I honestly don’t know what to think. Part of me is thinking I need to start thinking of a new start for me and dd. Any advice welcome.

The roaring thing has been done to exhaustion, Pinkblanket, really. No one is in any doubt what it is.

What's wrong with roaring? Roaring with laughter, roaring and greeting, roaring at the top of his lungs! It's often used in Scotland. I like it, it's expressive.

@cinderfeckinrella I did wonder if it was a Scottish thing 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’d also like to point out additional evidence that’s it’s just a word the OP uses for shouting, rather than the particularly adult, “prolonged” “intended to terrify” aggressive shouting some have interpreted it is; the OP has previously described their DD as roaring after a nap too.

Op has declined to share her own tactics in dealing with her dd, but it’s clear they are very much not working because she kicks, hits and screams at her mother on a regular basis, and is described by her as a little madam.
Maybe her DH is just plain sick of listening to op proclaim that she’s a childcare expert so things must be done her way when it results in behaviour like this?
He yelled at her to stop her antics, op has not suggested it was prolonged or sustained shouting, yet she climbed into the car and completely undermined him.

Your DD sounds like she has a tantrum when she doesn't get what she wants and your DH was presumably getting frustrated with her?

I agree that shouting at a tantrumming child won't help diffuse the situation but I've never met a perfect parent yet. Met plenty of useless passive ones that will ignore bad behaviour for a quiet life, then wonder why their adult children are so selfish.

Reading other threads by the OP just reinforces that dad is not in the wrong here. The child is a nightmare and its down to poor parenting. No discipline. No boundaries. Never told no and allowed to rule the roost. The husband has clearly had enough. Shouting doesn't help anything, but he isn't allowed to discipline or set rules without OP undermining him so what else can he do but lose his temper.

What TheInvestigator said.

@Westside1 I’ve not seen any of your previous posts, but you have me wondering, is your daughter additional needs? That would explain the reaction to the routine change in mummy’s car, and if your daughter has had extreme tantrums, or as we parents of autistic children call them, meltdowns. Shouting very loudly at a child when in this kind of almost crisis in their world is not acceptable. In fact it is never really acceptable to lose control as a parent, but it does happen to us all as parents, and any parent who says they’ve never shouted at their child is a liar. But your child’s father needs to admit that he handled it poorly, apologise and move past it. And if your child is autistic, then routine is safety and control. God help you if you try and change the routine.

This thread seems to have brought out the authoritarians who pile on to the posters who raise critical points and say they do things differently (lottie, Cheby). We've even had a suggestion that the parent who puts children's music on is denying their child a wholesome lesson in imagination We've had references to 'brats' and 'snowflakes'. We've had disgust at the concept of not being 'allowed to shout at your own child' (replace 'shout at' with 'smack' and see how that reads). And we've had 'undermining'. I can't help feeling the united-front-at-all-costs school of parenting that's trendy just now is misguided at best and dangerous at worst.

The truth is that this is a snapshot, with important context missing, but on the face of it the adult, who's the one the onus is on to act like a, well, adult, lost it inappropriately and frightened his child. I'm not saying at all that I thgink 'LTB immediately' or the whole 'I'm crying here' stuff are the right responses here. But the amount of child-blaming on this thread in response to this scenario - the notion that the child, at 4, is supposed to have her emotions in check while the appears to have the right to lose it if he doesn't get his way (instant compliance and, I suspect, being able to hear the match) - is rather startling, to say the least. Seems to hark back to another era.

In a car, safety is paramount. I wouldn't want to be distracted by ridiculous children's songs - I need to concentrate on what I'm doing and on the road around me.

Let's hope the team DH wanted to listen to didn't score or get a penalty while he was driving then. Personally I'd think silly children's songs I didn't care about would be a lot easier to tune out than a football match that he was presumably pretty emotionally invested in, given that he felt moved to have a shouting match with his daughter to make sure he got to hear it.

Well, CatteStreet, it’s not really a snapshot when op has loads of threads detailing her dd’s out of control behaviour, is it?

You may have time and inclination to AS her, I don't. I respond to the thread in front of me.

I'm also raising eyebrows at the mentions of 'ridiculous' or 'silly' children's songs. Did OP say what music it was? There's a lot of very musically and lyrically sophisticated children's music out there. And all (most!) music is important for dc's development. This automatic dismissal of something because it's 'for children' fits right into the dominant (adult-centric, for want of a better term) narrative on this thread.

I haven’t, actually. But several posters on the thread appear to have. I, too, am responding to the thread in front of me 🤷🏻‍♀️

Shock horror! Dad shouts at child for behaving brattishly. Call SS at once!

Couldnt she have had an ipad or something in the back instead does it have to be on the radio

he didnt need to shout but hyper ventaliating over it is ridiculous

@CatteStreet

Music us important for kids. My own kids both have lessons in violin and piano (as discussed in other threads on here). Music is very important for development. So are bright colours, story telling, game playing, dressing up, exercise etc. Doesn't mean they need to do them all in the car. The idea that they need stimulation in every environment is wrong. They need to be bored and they need to learn how to deal with that. Car journeys are a great place for kids to learn to handle boredom. She does not need music on in the car, especially if someone else wants to listen to something which is time specific like a match. She was told no and flipped, which seems to be a regular thing for this child. She gets told no so she has a tantrum and she bites and kicks and hits. She doesn't get her own way and she becomes a nightmare and OP gives in. An adult shouting is not a good way to deal with it, which most people have agreed on. It doesn't sort the problem or de-escalate the situation. But everyone loses their temper, and he is being undermined every time he tries to set rules and boundaries because OP, the patebing expert with an out of control child, knows best. She doesn't.

@Butterymuffin-I don't think that you've read my comment in context. It was in a direct reply to the suggestion that the songs were a "privilege". The point was that tantruming for a treat is NOT the safe as a child getting upset because the world is suddenly not working the way it normally does.

I also don't see how people.can overlook the DH's.selfishness in privileging his own wants over those who his DC-it was just as petty of him to want the match as his DD to want her music......expect he isn't a small child. Children do need to learn that to accept a "no" but parents also need to pick their battles. In my view, this was a battle he should have avoided in the first place.

TheInvestigator, your account of what happened in your post above is all about the child. She did this, she did that, she 'flipped'. Where does the husband come in? Wasn't it an interaction at all? Didn't he flip?

I'm just not sure the 'poor man at the end of his tether' narrative is any more accurate than the 'out-of-control brat' one.

the world is suddenly not working the way it normally does
For the love of God, the child is FOUR. Not getting their own way cannot be described as the world failing to turn as it should.

OP said that he was shouting at her to stop having a tantrum. He wasn't shouting at her about the music. It's pretty clear she asked for music and he told her no for that journey. Going from her other behaviour, she had a tantrum. He shouted at her to stop having a tantrum. You show me a parent who says they've never shouted at their kids in frustration at repeated bad behaviour, and I will show you a liar.

I have repeatedly said that shouting wasn't the response which would work. He need to accept that and find a better way to control his temper. But that child is old enough to know better. She just doesn't because she's never been taught that no means no and tantrums don't work. Mum actually jumps in and tries to give her what she wants when she throws a tantrum. A child flipping out and hitting and biting all the time... I think most people would lose it eventually.

He needs to find a better way and accept his part in it. But so does mum and that child needs a firmer hand.

Your DD behaves like a normal 4 year old but your lack of discipline is starting to cause problems now. No means no, stop allowing her to have her own way. Clearly your idea of dealing with her is not working, and your DH shouting at her is hardly going to scar her is it? She will not be able to behave like this at school, stop pandering to her.

'But that child is old enough to know better.'

So's 'that man'.

Why is it acceptable for him (the adult) to give loud vent to his feelings of frustration, but not for her (the child) to do the same? And which of the two is the one who should be expected to be more in control of him-/herself? A lot of replies on this thread imply it's the child.

The rights and wrongs of who got their choice of listening in this car journey aside - I'm not sure a car journey was the right place to start reversing that, if this pattern of tantrumming is indeed in place. If a child needs to get used to being told no, surely common sense, if nothing else, dictates that that should initially be happening in a situation where there is time, room and safety for a tantrum to be had and weathered, and an alternative for distraction for the child. Not in the confined and safety-critical space of a car. This suggests to me that this really wasn't about 'poor frustrated man staging a parenting intervention'. This was, dare I say it, man throwing a tantrum equal (or more) to his daughter's because he couldn't listen to his sport. Six of one and half a dozen of the other, at most. Except - he's an adult.

Or maybe man assuming this is one time wife is not around to stick her oar in and insist child is indulged? Wrongly, as it happens. Poor bugger.