Really upset about dh roaring at our 4 year old

[Westside1]

I have previously posted about this but I’m really shook up tonight. Dh was bringing dd in car earlier and I just happened to open front door as they’d forgotten bag when I witnessed him roaring at her and her really distressed in car. She wanted her music put on and he wanted to listen to match. He was driving my car and I always let her listen to her music. She was practically hyperventilating and he was roaring at her to stop. Windows were slightly open and I could hear all this. I got in beside her until she calmed down and then they left. I wanted to let her stay at home but he insisted she would be fine. She was fine when she came home. I’m so upset all evening and can hardly look at him. If I witnessed a parent doing this to their child I’d be appalled but to see my own child being treated like this is torture. He keeps telling me I’m over reacting, that she was just playing up so there’s no point arguing with him as we are going around in circles. He had a go at me as I’m not strict enough with her etc.

Am I overreacting? I honestly don’t know what to think. Part of me is thinking I need to start thinking of a new start for me and dd. Any advice welcome.

I'm not going to bother reading that BS.

It's no wonder that there are so many "snowflakes" these days that can't cope with life, when shouting at your child for having a tantrum because they don't get their own way is classed as abusive.

It sounds like another classic example of a man that was more for the idea of having children than the reality.

He was wrong to shout and bawl at her. IMO what he should have done is simply say “no” and then turned the football right up to drown out her crying.

@Skittlenommer funny how many posts come up of mothers pulling their hair out and shouting at their kids on MN. But they all get support. Guess they shouldn't have bred either.

but you cannot tolerate even mild stressful events if they are very unpredictable.”

Except life experience contradicts this finding massively, otherwise we’d have a breakdown every time our bus was late or we broke a cup. The research doesn’t account for life context, for the stabilising force of secure attachment figures, our capacity for emotional regulation, resilience our capacity for mentalisation. Things don’t happen in isolation, to blank slate people.

I’m all for academia, I’m well studied in childhood trauma - given you’ve quoted ACEs studies, you’ll be aware of some of the strong criticism of both the original data set and subsequent analysis?

I’m very wary of saying that shouting at a child is traumatising; in the context of an otherwise loving, stable relationship it simply isn’t. Saying it is demonises parents who lose their patience (as we all do at times) and minimises actual childhood trauma which all too often goes unnoticed and unresponded to. If you want to go down the trauma route, it’s worth considering how traumatic it is for small children to be in an environment where they don’t know social norms around behaviour, and no sense of safe boundaries or how to regulate themselves in a given setting.

Shouting at her may be less than ideal, but research doesn’t support the concept of life long damage caused by being shouted at mid tantrum.

Except life experience contradicts this finding massively, otherwise we’d have a breakdown every time our bus was late or we broke a cup.

Except this is childhood. There have been multiple studies around ACEs and hundreds of research papers. The CTQ, developed by University of Oxbridge, is designed around the ACEs studies.

Most of life’s mildly stressful events are unpredictable. That’s where the stress comes in.
Most people tolerate them perfectly well? I can’t think what sort of life you’d have to live where everything that happened to you was predictable and non stressful.
A nunnery, perhaps? Yet most of us are perfectly fine, going about our business without any need for therapy at all.

I'm not going to bother reading that BS. A kid behaving like a brat being bollocked by her father is not going to screw her up

Oh ffs. I knew this thread would get a bunch of responses from people who also abuse their kids. Some people just aren’t fit to be parents.

I had a parent like this who I’m not NC with who (like you) thinks screaming at people is perfectly normal and not abusive. This parent can’t accept I want NC and has tried to illegally find my address. I hope you get counselling/anger management as your kids didn’t ask to be born and are now forced to share a house with you.

Shouting at her may be less than ideal, but research doesn’t support the concept of life long damage caused by being shouted at mid tantrum

Just fucking LOL. There are thousands of peer reviewed studies on emotional abuse that show shouting/screaming at harms children long term.

www.healthline.com/health/parenting/effects-of-yelling-at-kids#5

Above shows examples of how shouting at children leads to depression, chronic pain, stunts on brain development. But you nutters carry on. Poor kids.

Yelling changes the way their brain develops

Yelling and other harsh parenting techniques can quite literally change the way your child’s brain develops. That’s because humans process negative information and events more quickly and thoroughly than good ones.

One studyTrusted Source compared brain MRI scans of people who had a history of parental verbal abuse in childhood with scans of those who did not have a history of abuse. They found a noticeable physical difference in the parts of the brain responsible for processing sounds and language.

How offensive to call us “nutters”. And you don’t need to pity my kids because I occasionally shout at them.

Occasionally being shouted at isn’t verbal abuse and won’t stunt my kids growth ffs.

@Hithere12 so from an anonymous Internet forum with zero background you now believe I abuse my children.

Well now I'm concerned about your kids being raised by somebody not so bright.

How offensive to call us “nutters”. And you don’t need to pity my kids because I occasionally shout at them

Why do you shout at them? Do you shout at other adults when you’re angry? And I seriously doubt it’s occaisionally, people either scream at their kids and think it’s normal or they don’t.

Yes it DOES stunt their brain development ffs. You know more than the decades of research done by psychologists?

One studyTrusted Source compared brain MRI scans of people who had a history of parental verbal abuse in childhood with scans of those who did not have a history of abuse. They found a noticeable physical difference in the parts of the brain responsible for processing sounds and language.

You know that these studies look at the most extremes - so studies looking the effects of neglect compared brain development in children in Romanian orphanages with no stimulation whatsoever to children who were well loved and cared for. Certainly a level of neglect very few children in the uk experience.

Studies looking at physical, emotional, psychological damage compare brain development in the very worst cases, where there is consistent, long term, extreme levels of abuse - not a parent who lost their temper and shouted at their child.

Yes these studies have something to show us about the impact of ongoing, long term, extreme abuse (which btw ACEs studies don’t account for) but the vast majority of loving parents aren’t causing irreparable damage by occasionally shouting at their child.

Do you shout at other adults when you’re angry?

Do you never, ever raise your voice? Ever?

I agree with you @TheInvestigator

Child psychology shows they NEED to be bored. As this is when certain parts of the brain start developing. They need to show imagination play. They need to develop strategies etc.

I shout at my husband occasionally. And sometimes I shout at work.

I shout at my kids maybe, I dunno, once every two weeks perhaps and I shout because my youngest has pushed my buttons.

Damn. My kids are fucked with the long term damage I have done to them.

You know that these studies look at the most extremes - so studies looking the effects of neglect compared brain development in children in Romanian orphanages with no stimulation whatsoever to children who were well loved and cared for. Certainly a level of neglect very few children in the uk experience

😂 This study was done on Americans by Harvard, not Romanian orphans. Nice try though.

Also it doesn’t matter if the yelling is done in a Romanian Orphanage or a rich family living in the suburbs, it’s still abuse either way.

It’s actually scary/sad how normal people think this is. Screaming at a small child is abuse. It’s traumatic and it’s not normal and all the data shows that.

@jellycatspyjamas

I read a study about ‘Addison’s dsease’ Where they showed people who had been under types of stress and developed this rare endocrine disorder

People then spouted but I’ve had a lot of stress in my life to of caused this

It then cane out they meant people who had literally grown up on war camps. The most extreme form of physical stress there was. Not just oh shoot. I’ve run out of petrol stress a few tines.

Strange how people read things

There have been multiple studies around ACEs and hundreds of research papers. The CTQ, developed by University of Oxbridge, is designed around the ACEs studies.

Yep, ACEs studies are very fashionable at the moment - and have some merit, of course they do. But you might want to think about why it’s all of a sudden fashionable given the data is over 20 years old and has largely been ignored until recent years. There’s no political ground to be gained at all for predicting poor outcomes against a very narrow range of adversities, nothing to be gained by blaming poor parenting rather than looking at societal pressures on families - it’s no surprise that the ACEs agenda largely landed around the time of the austerity agenda.

If you think the adoption of particular research to inform social programmes isn’t political and doesn’t serve a political purpose you’re utterly deluded. I’m not saying ACEs programmes have no merit, but they aren’t the whole story and are heavily political.

As the end of the article I linked says:

It’s never too late to make a change in your parenting behavior or learn some new techniques. If you notice yourself yelling a lot or losing your temper, ask for help. A therapist or even another parent can help you sort through some of those feelings and develop a plan to deal with them in a healthier way.

Honestly instead of defending you behaviour as normal why not try and get help? It’s not fair on your children. They’ll likely go NC when their older, just like I have and everyone I know who had similar parents.

😂 This study was done on Americans by Harvard, not Romanian orphans. Nice try though.

Which study? You’re not taking about the opinion piece you linked to which has no evidence - making reference to vague “studies” with no academic references doesn’t count as evidence.

If you’re referring to a different specific study, point be in the right direction - always happy to do some reading.

Help😂

And my kids going NC because I shouted at them occasionally 😂

Honestly instead of defending you behaviour as normal why not try and get help?

I don’t need help, thanks, my relationships with my children are solid. They’re healthy, well adjusted little people happy and secure having had a very adverse, actually traumatic start in life.

And yes, sometimes I shout.