Really upset about dh roaring at our 4 year old

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I have previously posted about this but I’m really shook up tonight. Dh was bringing dd in car earlier and I just happened to open front door as they’d forgotten bag when I witnessed him roaring at her and her really distressed in car. She wanted her music put on and he wanted to listen to match. He was driving my car and I always let her listen to her music. She was practically hyperventilating and he was roaring at her to stop. Windows were slightly open and I could hear all this. I got in beside her until she calmed down and then they left. I wanted to let her stay at home but he insisted she would be fine. She was fine when she came home. I’m so upset all evening and can hardly look at him. If I witnessed a parent doing this to their child I’d be appalled but to see my own child being treated like this is torture. He keeps telling me I’m over reacting, that she was just playing up so there’s no point arguing with him as we are going around in circles. He had a go at me as I’m not strict enough with her etc.

Am I overreacting? I honestly don’t know what to think. Part of me is thinking I need to start thinking of a new start for me and dd. Any advice welcome.

This is one side of the story.
If you let her have her own way all the time and she's come to expect it,perhaps your dh has to become sterner to make her understand she can't.
Perhaps sit down and agree on parenting together rather than separately op?
Appreciate i may have read this wrong,sorry if I have.

@Jellybeansincognito.

Very well put.

I wanted to let her stay at home but he insisted she would be fine. I think you needed to trust your instincts and let her stay at home. She needed to see clearly that this level of shouting wasn’t on and you were prepared to intervene. It’s very hard to know from your posts if your daughter over reacts, however your DH shout not have ‘roared’ at her, and if she does over react she’s learning it from someone else, e.g. DH who also over reacts.

Either way, that escalation is no good and needed to stop. I would be quite happy to put my foot down with a child, but I’d not be roaring back ever.

So how is a child ever going to learn to cope with that unless it's allowed to happen to them sometimes? Without shouting, but by saying 'no, you can't have what you want this time'?

Absolutely this. There doesn't need to be shouting or roaring for a child to learn better choices or better behaviour. Just a calm "you can't have that this time" then ignoring the tantrum would have so much more impact than a roar at a tiny person.

Yes dd can be a little madam at times but roaring at her is not the answer and that is what I’m trying to get through to dh

Given she kicked off because she was told she wasn’t getting to listen to music, I’d suggest whatever your way is, isn’t the answer either.

My mum is from south Yorkshire.

Roaring, pronounced ru-ar-ing was a common expression when I was a kid, and meant crying.

This kid is 4. FOUR. Of course they can cope with a slight deviation from routine. I don’t imagine the teachers at school tolerate tantrums if suddenly maths swaps with English today because the teacher needs to be elsewhere.

I don’t think yelling in the car is the ideal
Course. Nor do I think your approach is!

And you come across as superior, with your childcare expertise, precious training and hours of experience. If I were your husband and you started telling me how to parent in such a didactic manner, it would be infuriating for me.

How do you handle it when she’s being a little madam, op? Apart from giving in at the first sign of a wobbly lip?

So how is a child ever going to learn to cope with that unless it's allowed to happen to them sometimes? Without shouting, but by saying 'no, you can't have what you want this time'?

How do we know that's not what happened, and the DD kicked up a stink anyway?

All OP she saw was her DD crying and her DH shouting - she doesn't know which happened first - the shouting or the tantrum. It could be that her dad had explained it nicely and she still kicked off because she's used to getting her own way all the time.

I rarely do this, but I have been prompted to because I feel there’s way more to this and you are minimizing her behavior.

As a self acclaimed childcare expert, your methods are struggling aren’t they? Your daughter kicks and hits you, she “roars” her head off in temper after a nap and there are so many battles in the morning you can hardly get out the door.

I think both of you need to consider your methods!

@adaline she may have kicked off, however her father still shouldn’t have roared at her.

As a mum I’d have clearly communicated with both in the car, that he should not have roared at her, and that he’s sorry. But that it’s okay for him to have wanted his own radio too.

Oh, there’s a huge backstory?

You would have clearly communicated that your dh was sorry, longsummer?

You say your DD can be a madam and you don’t seem to have any form of effective discipline with her. It sounds like you give her whatever she wants to the detriment of your family. You yourself don’t know how to handle your dd when she kicks and screams at you.

She’s four and she sounds pretty challenging.

You need to have consistent boundaries. And not give her everything she wants.

DP parents like you, he will ask dd aged 2, what she wants. She gets first choice in everything he’ll not discipline her because she’ll get upset🙄

I do discipline her, I have shouted at dd occasionally. DD is actually very good when I’m alone with her, will eat her meals and go down for naps. Will play happily etc.

When dp is about she will revert to tantrums and demanding things. Because she knows he’ll give her whatever she wants. I leave him to it now. When we’re together dd is harder to discipline as she thinks her dad will let her do whatever she wants as usual. It makes her furious when that doesn’t happen.

At the beginning DP and I had a massive falling out over our parenting techniques. I hated being the stricter parent. DP does now follow some of my discipline techniques so dd is better at accepting ‘no’, however dd is far happier when I’m parenting her as she knows the boundaries and expectations. She will go down for a nap with me like a lamb. It takes DP two hours to get her to nap which ruins her bedtime etc.

Parenting and having qualification in childcare are nothing alike. Neither is working in childcare with other people’s kids in a nursery or school setting. You need to stop thinking you know better than your DH because of your qualifications. Your parenting has partly contributed to a child who hyperventilates and tantrums when she doesn’t get her own way. It may be why your DH doesn’t want to be hands on, it gets exhausting being the baddie strict parent.

Yes if this is regular tantrums and distress, something isn’t right with both your parenting.

I find being clear and consistent and giving a child notice of rules is really helpful. Changing rules can be stressful for them. She may need to learn to cope, but not for this instance when DH didn’t realise she always listened to her own music in your car. That’s a hard one for a 4 year old to cope with suddenly. It should have been agreed with her before they even set foot in the car.

Roaring to me would mean exceptionally loud and prolonged shouting and yelling. It's not a term I have commonly heard in this context. It would appear though from pp that this is perhaps not what was occurring here, but it's hard to know from the ops posts. In which case who knows who is unreasonable!

Massive overreaction. Basically OP you give in to your child all the time but because you are an “expert in childcare” that’s ok. Your husband doesn’t not want to give into your child and shouted at her for having an absolutely massive tantrum because she wasn’t allowed to listen to her music in the car at that time. You both need to sit down and make some tough decisions on parenting because at the moment you aren’t on the same page and neither of you are making a particularly great job of it. No one likes an over indulged spoilt madam and equally no parent should be an habitual shouter.

Oh some of these replies are hilarious. Tears in eyes
My dad ‘roared’ at me when I was around 4/5 because I wanted a pair of high heeled shoes and got myself in a right state about it. I can wholeheartedly say I am not emotionally scarred and I was being a right brat!
Kids can be absolute pain in the bums and can have a complete meltdown over the most insignificant things. Only you know what your DH is like, but in this instance he just seems like any parent at the end of their tether.

‘I am qualified in childcare so this is why I’m adamant that roaring at her is not the way to go and maybe if someone else tells him he may listen.’

Parenting your own children is completely different from caring for another persons. You are much more emotionally invested in your own children, they can push your buttons in a way that another persons child just can't.

Of course shouting isn't ideal but neither is her kicking off because she's not getting her own way. It sounds like neither of you have an effective technique in place to deal with temper tantrums and to be honest if you trot out your qualification and seeing 'childcare experts' every time he misses the mark then that must be really, really annoying for him.

You both need to sit down and come up with an effective strategy that isn't you telling him how it should be. You may have the qualification but you're both still learning how to parent your own DD and it's important that you both get on the same page about it.

I wanted to let her stay at home but he insisted she would be fine.

I think you needed to trust your instincts and let her stay at home.

Except the child was fine when she came home. Presumably they had "made up" or whatever.

As a mum I’d have clearly communicated with both in the car, that he should not have roared at her, and that he’s sorry. But that it’s okay for him to have wanted his own radio too.

And totally undermine your husband in front of your child? Would you be happy if he did the same to you?

I don't think DH or I would act as your DH did over just that. With TV/music we say "I am going to watch/listen to this, then you can have a turn if you're good and wait nicely". If DC decide to be little toads and shout/argue so we can't hear it, they get the "there it's off, now no one can have it' treatment.

I'm with your DH. It's not great to roar at a kid but she was being a little madam and throwing a tantrum because she didn't get her way. That's really bloody annoying in a car. She's 4 not 2. She needs to be able to accept no without resorting to hysterics.

Roaring isn't great

Always allowing a small child their own way (as in 'I always allow DD to listen to her music when I'm driving') is also not great.

I notice the OP is not answering any questions about the second point. Sounds like dad is unreasonable in his expectations of his child's behaviour and mum is overindulging.

I trust you'll be going along to see this childcare expert too, OP?

I am really surprised by the majority of the responses.

I have shouted at my 4yo DTs on occasion. I thought that was okay every now and then. I've never smacked but I have raised my voice as has DH.

I can't believe that there are some people on here who can't comprehend how a decent parent can occasionally lose their temper.

The way I see it (dons hard hat):
4yo wants own music. Dad says no because he is the adult in charge.

4yo has a melt down which drowns out the radio and heightens the atmosphere in an enclosed space.

Dad loses his temper. Mum intervenes and makes it obvious that she disapproves of dad.

4yo has learned that tantrum was acceptable to mum and that dad is in the wrong.

If it had been me, my focus would have been calming DD down then having a long chat with eye contact about acceptable behaviour. DD would have no inkling that I disapprove of DP's behaviour.

If I did disapprove (and I'm not sure I would, the occasional row from an adult is not the breaking of a child-my mum could get bloody scary and Im not traumatised, in fact she is my rock). Anyway, if I did disapprove I'd have long chat with DH once 4yo in bed to look at how we parent and set boundaries.

I think that the worst thing about this whole situation is the blatant undermining of your DP in front of DD-now that is confusing for a child!

Clear consistent agreed boundaries and frequently reflecting on your parenting as a team is the key here.

Honestly, your DD will be fine after this row but she's more likely to be damaged by the fact you are parenting so differently and not offering each other any support at such a vital stage.

Good luck OP