Really upset about dh roaring at our 4 year old

[Westside1]

I have previously posted about this but I’m really shook up tonight. Dh was bringing dd in car earlier and I just happened to open front door as they’d forgotten bag when I witnessed him roaring at her and her really distressed in car. She wanted her music put on and he wanted to listen to match. He was driving my car and I always let her listen to her music. She was practically hyperventilating and he was roaring at her to stop. Windows were slightly open and I could hear all this. I got in beside her until she calmed down and then they left. I wanted to let her stay at home but he insisted she would be fine. She was fine when she came home. I’m so upset all evening and can hardly look at him. If I witnessed a parent doing this to their child I’d be appalled but to see my own child being treated like this is torture. He keeps telling me I’m over reacting, that she was just playing up so there’s no point arguing with him as we are going around in circles. He had a go at me as I’m not strict enough with her etc.

Am I overreacting? I honestly don’t know what to think. Part of me is thinking I need to start thinking of a new start for me and dd. Any advice welcome.

Your over indulgent parenting, angering to your 4 yo isn’t doing her or your marriage any good. Nor is your misplaced sense of being a better parent than your DH.

He is her Dad, if he says ‘no’ she needs to be taught to respect that, not hyperventilate to get her own way. He’s allowed not to indulge her every whim even if you do (but you shouldn’t).

So, he shouted at her, unsurprisingly, when she was playing up. The world won’t end, but mummy rushing in just makes her more likely to do the same thing next time - how do you expect that to help?

Working with a group of children & parenting are not the same thing. Stop criticising your DH’s parenting and take a hard look at your own.

All any of us can go on is what the OP has said.

She hasn't mentioned any calm explanation. Her description was of a very fast escalation.

There is nothing in her post to suggest patient, thoughtful parenting on her DH's behalf. There is a lot to suggest selfishness, impatience and willingness to take out his frustrations on a young child.

I'm sharing that response to OP's words, with OP.

Others' responses are different. This is fine.

I am qualified in childcare

Yet it doesn't seem to be doing you much good, as you don't seem able to deal with your daughter's reactions when she doesn't get what she wants. I don't condone roaring at a child (and FFS, what's with all the people who can't understand the expression? It's really not hard) but neither of you sound like you've got a handle on parenting this child.

the issue isn't the choice of soundtrack (though if this child's routine is that she does always listen to songs in this car then that is relevant, whatever your life experience), it's the way he 'explained' his choice to her - by the sound of it he didn't explain

You weren't there, and neither was OP, so how on earth do you know how he did or didn't explain his choice? He could have been calm and rational and she could still have ended up having a tantrum over it.

The way OP describes it is that the DD was bawling and screaming and her DH turned around and shouted at her. Nobody here has any idea what happened before that.

The DD may well be used to listening to her music in the car, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable behaviour for her to shout and tantrum over it. I can't imagine my dad (or my mum, come to think of it) letting me get away with a full-blown screaming tantrum at that age - especially not in the car where it's incredibly dangerous and distracting for the driver.

Most DCs that age behave better for a teacher/childminder than for parents, some love to push their parents’ buttons, and it’s a rare parent who doesn’t lose his/her rag once in a while. Maybe that is not on the curriculum at childcare training.

the child is 4 NOT a toddler

Her description was of a very fast escalation. There you go again, lottie... Op described the child screaming and her dh yell at her to stop screaming.
She hasn’t describes how the child got to the point of screaming because she wasn’t there to see it and neither were you.

Yeah LTB we've all lost our temper with our kids, never our finest moments. Sounds like you have different parenting styles, does she always have her music on on in the car as it's easier for you to keep her entertained? Your H doesn't see why a 4yr old gets to dictate what he listens to? LTB as the majority OPs say, then you can live separate lives, less income, 50/50 custody, child gets to be raised in two homes with two different sets of rules, broken home scenario. Sounds an ideal solution to H roaring at 4yr old. Why dont you take a breathe and discuss parenting as a team, which may mean you need to be a little firmer and he needs to be a little softer.

Wow- lots of overdramatic posters on this thread- do people really cry if they see a parent shouting at a naughty child? To me it sounds as if dad just wanted to listen to the football and lost his patience with a wining four year old who couldn't take no for an answer. I don't think it's that unusual for children to react dramatically with that sort of gasping type sobbing when they are told off. If dad doesn't lose his temper that often then it probably shocked her- which surely was his intent in the first place. It sounds like you might undermine his authority in this relationship which is why he's probably not accepting he was maybe a bit harsh on her. Maybe next time dad says no she'll accept it more readily.

How many of you advocating for shouting at 4 year olds have had distressed small children suddenly cease to be distressed because you shouted at them? When you’re upset, if your partner shouts at you, do you suddenly feel ok?

I find it really frightening that people view this behaviour as acceptable. Surely once you’ve shouted you’ve shown the child that you’ve lost control completely anyway and lost any moral high ground?

Surely the best way to deal with tantrums is to stand firm in your decision (eg not having music on, which by the way I think was a dick move in any case), remain calm, show some empathy and give an explanation as to why they can’t have what they wanted eg ‘I understand you are upset/angry/whatever that you can’t have your music on but it’s daddy’s turn to choose what we listen to now so we are going to listen to the football’, then just carry on with your day.

They calm down eventually, I usually offer help to calm down (cuddle, hold hands, whatever they want) if they want it, often they don’t, in which case I let them get on with it until they do want a cuddle, which they invariably do eventually. They learn that having a tantrum doesn’t get them what they want, no one is frightened, the child realises that you still love them, and that you understand when things are important to them (even if those things seem ridiculous to us with an adult viewpoint).

Small children can’t manage their emotions in the same way that adults can. You’re only setting yourself up to fail if you do expect that from them.

Very much the 'do as I say not as I do' school of parenting isn't it.

Shouting at her when upset, as a way of telling her not to shout when upset.

I'm afraid I'd be yelling at a four-year-old, too, who tantrummed for not having her music.

Not trying to be mean, but your child sounds very over-indulged.

Do you want a reward for such perfect parenting @Cheby?

Parents lose their patience sometimes. We’re talking about a 4 year old that should be pretty accustomed to not getting their own way by now.
I would be less tolerant to my 4 year old screaming like op described after not getting her own way than I would my 2 year old.

People get frustrated and shout sometimes, is it absolutely ok for children to learn this. Life isn’t all roses.

No one was harmed in any way, I’m sure after this single occurrence the child doesn’t feel unloved.

Ridiculous statement to make tbh.

I don’t often shout - I don’t need to because my low, slow voice is warning enough for my kids - but when I do, in circumstances where they are being totally unreasonable, yes they do stop. Crocodile tears stop quite easily when the protagonist realises that no means no, and continued tabtrumming will result in a further consequence (not doing an activity, or removal of a privilege for example).

Honestly these days people don’t bloody parent anymore. There are seemingly no consequences for bad behaviour for some children. It drives me insane, so many mardy, badly behaved, badly disciplined kids around. No wonder parents sometimes snap.

I have done this so many times. Always feel awful afterwards. Much better at controlling it now, especially with medication for pmdd. It's not good for kids, no, but some people have to work harder tham others to control their temper.

If there are a multitude of other reasons to leave; leave. But know that your DD would most likely be cared for by her dad 50% of the time anyway, so not sure how this would help.

I fully agree zzzzzzzz12345.

Do you really think telling your child off for misbehaving will make them feel unloved, Cheby? In my experience, children raised that way are rarely nice to be around. It’s the perfect way to raise a brat.

Life can be very difficult for children who've had perfect parents, when they leave home and go to college or to their first job. They're shocked that not everyone takes the time to consider their feelings, and that some people are just plain nasty.

I cannot believe a poster has said she has tears in her eye because a kid got shouted at. She might cry more when I say I yelled at my kid yesterday and she cried too.

Sometimes we get frustrated and shout. Let’s not get dramatic about it.

Cheby
(eg not having music on, which by the way I think was a dick move in any case)

Seriously? You think an adult should put a child's demand to listen to music before his/her wanting to listen to a match?

How many of you advocating for shouting at 4 year olds have had distressed small children suddenly cease to be distressed because you shouted at them? When you’re upset, if your partner shouts at you, do you suddenly feel ok?

Nobody said his behaviour was perfect, did they? I don't know anyone who has never once lost their cool and shouted at someone - be it their partner, a colleague, the dog, their child, the driver ahead of them or whatever.

Adults are allowed to get frustrated and shout. Personally I found my dad's "look" much scarier than him shouting! I also found cold clipped words (so anger without the shouting) much more upsetting. No, shouting isn't ideal but actually there are worse ways to tell someone off than shout at them in my opinion.

This is a four year old child who threw a wobbler because she wasn't allowed to get her own way (like she's used to doing). In my opinion it's a good lesson to learn - you can't always get what you want, and even if you start bawling and having a tantrum, it won't make dad change his mind.

Sometimes, children just need to respect their parents - no should mean no. She's four. She can't always get what she wants.

I've read the full thread and I'm still none of the wiser what roaring is.

As for the dad shouting at the child, we've all been there! Ideal no, but in that moment of frustration it happens.
The little girl does sound over indulged, she was having a tantrum over not getting her way.
Also I don't know why it's important to say that you've got childcare experience.. It's almost saying you're more qualified to look after your child than your husband. In these dynamics it doesn't exactly count.

It sounds like there's an underlying issue here and it's more than just the "roaring".

Honestly. I think a lot of children could do with being shouted at a bit more. You sound over indulgent. If she's consistently kicking off and hasn't listened to his no and has then continued to get worked up I would snap and tell her to cut out her crying.

In all honesty, it sounds as though the 'D'H has been not particularly nice of late and the OP is considering that enough is enough. She may be getting defensive of anything the husband does and I understand that. My now ex husband was a shit and I became extremely protective on our son when he was 1. Thank god we split.

I think neither of your parenting techniques work.
You’re coming across as being over indulgent and lax, dh is too harsh and she’s playing you off each other.
Dh might find it easier to set boundaries. Before getting in the car say “we are listening to x today but next time you can listen you your music” if she then tantrums ignore. I find my eldest is more compliant if I give notice before something happens I.e “it’s bedtime in 10mins” “we are doing this but after we are doing xyz”. Kids don’t understand if something appears to happen out the blue or different to what they expect.
I think you was wrong to step in, it undermines him and reinforces that she’s right and she will carry on playing up for him as she knows you’re gonna swoop in and take her side.
It’s hard to say about the shouting, we all shout at our kids and it’s not always a bad thing. You’re obviously sensitive to it and we aren’t going to know if he was over the top or not. It’s something you both need to talk about.
If you break up he will have her on his own when it’s his contact time and parent his own ways.
I think you need to be more strict then dh will probably not need to be so strict. Being inconsistent isn’t helping her behaviour. You may have childcare qualifications but child care is different to parenting and you should stop pandering to her