Friend has accused me of being a snob

[HiveBehind]

I live in an area which is very beautiful and has many good points, but has an issue with bored teenagers drinking in the park/committing petty vandalism and the like.

A few friends were at my house last night and we were discussing some of the latest antics of the local youth. One of my friends said you could hardly blame them, as they were bored and had nothing to do. I said I disagreed-I grew up here and didn't behave like that, and neither do my children. I pointed out the numerous sports clubs and facilities avaliable to young people in recent years, far more than we ever had. She got quite cross with me, said "not everyone can afford violin lessons you know" (DD plays violin) and told me I was a snob and needed to check my privilege. Everyone sort of went quiet, and she then tried to laugh it off as ironic banter, but it clearly wasn't.

I sort of went to bed a bit "oh" but the more I think about it the crosser I am. I was born and raised here in an overcrowded council house, my mum ended up a single mother, we were skint. I went away, came back, DH and I aren't loaded but we've bought our own house and we prioritise the DC doing activities and such because we want to give them as many opportunities as we can. DD's violin was fourth hand, I bought it with money that I was given for my birthday, I do car boot sales over the summer to pay for her lessons over term time.

Friend moved down here from the city for the scenery and to do the whole Good Life thing, comes from well off family,yet apparently seems to know it all. Who the fuck does she think she is?

Indeed pictish, indeed. Drugs aren’t a good idea for children either though.

Growing up on a council estate doesn’t mean you’re immune to being a snob

By the way, I had violin lessons at school and by year 11 I was drinking in the park and getting up to all sorts in the woods. Don’t congratulate yourself too much right now.

Thank you Hoooo, will look into it x

Children can only drink, vandalise and smoke in the park if the parents choose to let them or if they abdicate all responsibility.

My parents did neither - they had no idea it was happening. I absolutely agree with you that poor parenting is incredibly damaging to a child but I don't agree that good parenting - especially when summarised as violin lessons and badminton games - is a failsafe method to preventing antisocial behaviour.

Where did they think you were, peach?

At a friend's house, or out cycling, or swimming, or playing tennis etc etc. I would stay out long enough to sober up, then come home and shower. My mum cried when I told her as an adult what I'd got up to. I was a good teenager, passed my exams, worked hard at school, did loads of out of school activities etc but I was still drinking and smoking in fields.

You got pissed and sobered up within the space of a tennis or swimming lesson? Come on

Children can only drink, vandalise and smoke in the park if the parents choose to let them or if they abdicate all responsibility

Not true. My parents had no idea I was doing these things at age 15. My friends parents didn't either. One of my friends had very strict parents and even she managed to do it.

I would stay out long enough to sober up, then come home and shower

I also used to do this. We'd stop drinking about 2 hours before we used to go home, sober up, eat some chips slathered in vinegar to disguise the smell of alcohol on us.

Children can only drink, vandalise and smoke in the park if the parents choose to let them or if they abdicate all responsibility.

Are you really that naive?

I also used to do this. We'd stop drinking about 2 hours before we used to go home, sober up, eat some chips slathered in vinegar to disguise the smell of alcohol on us.

Ha yep, us too. We had a close knit group of us, and some parents were more lenient than others. We always stayed at the house of the most relaxed parents, and of course often told our parents we were at someone else's house so they wouldn't worry/make us stay home.

I often lied and said I was staying at my best friend's. My mum had known her since we were two and never once checked up on us. Likewise, she often said she was staying with me when we were infact somewhere else entirely - our parents never checked up on us.

We often ended up drinking in parks/fields underage. This was only 15 years ago as well. Both of us had middle class upbringings and did plenty of "extra curricular activities", as well as parents who most certainly loved and cared about us. That didn't stop us behaving like normal teenagers, though!

Just want to clarify that I was NOT vandalising things, just the drinking and smoking.

I don't think you sound like a snob but it's natural for young people to want to hang out together and if you don't have the kind of house that can accommodate lots of your friends away from your parents, teenagers will go to parks. My DH had lots of friends that had huge homes so the teenagers had rooms that were almost like bedsits, that coupled with parents that were mostly absent due to both working full time in high salaried jobs, resulted in a fair bit of freedom. When you were older 17/18 you went to pubs and gigs, I don't know anybody that went to parks at that age or leisure centres for their entertainment.

I often lied and said I was staying at my best friend's. My mum had known her since we were two and never once checked up on us. Likewise, she often said she was staying with me when we were infact somewhere else entirely - our parents never checked up on us

Yes that's what we did too. It's absolutely not only neglected and poor kids who do this. We all left school with decent qualifications, some went on to university, some got jobs straight from school. Nobody turned out to be a criminal. Everyone of us now have decent lives and homes.

Nobody turned out to be a criminal. Everyone of us now have decent lives and homes.

Same here. Every single one of us is in full-time work, most of us own our own homes and we're all doing pretty well for ourselves. Drinking in parks for a couple of years as teenagers had absolutely no impact on our success as adults.

Apologies if this has already been asked but where do you find the stuff to do endless carboots? What do you sell? Genuine question.

teenagers drinking in the park/committing petty vandalism and the like

It's not the behaviour I'd aspire my kids to be involved in. Boredom is no excuse. The parents are shunting their 'bored teenagers' off to be somebody else's problem.
Your pal is an idiot - since when was having musical lessons a sign of snobbery?

When I was about 12, I vividly remember my Mum bursting into tears because I asked for 50p to play tennis. Sometimes, there just isn't the money.

Also, you have the privilege of aspiration. If all you've known is poverty and deprivation, being able to see a different future is not necessarily easy.

YANBU. As long as your Dd enjoys playing violin you shouldn’t feel bad. What does this woman expect, for you to forego spending your money and not utilise opportunities in case you upset someone less well off? She’s just jealous.

If all you've known is poverty and deprivation, being able to see a different future is not necessarily easy

Possibly, for some. For me it was a hell of a driving force - a motivation to go onwards and upwards.

@HeadintheiClouds I lived rurally. Going to and from those activities, plus having lunch or whatever, would easily take 3 hours if not more. Add in going with a friend and going to their house for a bit first and it could be a whole afternoon accounted for.

I'm not sure what you're trying to imply?

Naive to know where your children are and what they are doing? Definitely not. Naive not to know and assume all is well. Parents not checking where there child is amounts to negligent parenting.
Did they never wonder, peach, where your wet swimming costume and towels were? Did you really get drunk in the afternoon- swimming tends not to be a late evening activity.
Being at a friends parents house is very different to being allowed to roam free in parks. Vandalism and wandering in gangs intimidating others is a huge step away from hanging around at a friends house.

Most children do survive and do well - just as most people speeding don’t get caught. Sadly, there are too many cases where children have been allowed to have excessive freedom and have ended up in dreadful situations. That might be drugs at a Reading or Boomtown when they’ve been allowed to go at sixteen. It might be drowning from messing about near rivers or on the beach under the influence of alcohol. That might be aspiration of their own vomit and failing to maintain an airway. It might be coercion or forced sexual activity. Too many children suffer as a direct consequence of too much unsupervised freedom too soon.

Again, that these things occur is more to do with alcohol consumption than freedom.

My very poor, working class mother would never allow me to hang around with the village kids. She had standards. What many people mean when they call others snobs is that they are either jealous or are letting themselves off the hook regarding their own social standards. Sounds like the OP’s friend is just envious.

Who cares? What’s wrong with snobbery in this context?

And as for ‘check your privilege’. Life is a struggle for every human being on earth in one way or another. CYP is just another all-purpose piece of abuse like the ubiquitousness of calling others fascists or racists if they don’t agree with the interlocutor.

This has been a common point of view for years 'there's nothing for teenagers to do', I used to hear the same comments when I was a teenager (over 40 years ago ).

Some teenagers are happy to do structured activities - sports clubs, Explorer Scouts, DoE, volunteering etc etc and some aren't. It's not always a question of money, where I live there are genuinely a lot of activities for teens, many of them are free or very cheap & I'm fortunate in that my teenage DS is happy & motivated enough to be a 'joiner' but many teens aren't and prefer to spend their time mooching about.

A friend of mine complained that there was nothing 'for teens' and when I asked her to clarify all she could think of us was that there wasn't a bowling alley in the town . A lot of teens just don't want structured activities, just like a lot of adults don't. I don't think it's as simple as saying you need money to do things.

Did they never wonder, peach, where your wet swimming costume and towels were?
No, we would wet them before we went home. Going to great lengths to hide what we were up to was part of the game.

Did you really get drunk in the afternoon- swimming tends not to be a late evening activity.
Yes. Teenagers don't abide by social norms of drinking times!

I'm not sure why it's so hard for some of you to believe that a child of two loving, supportive, engaged parents with a stable home life could engage in illicit activity behind their backs despite their best efforts. In my experience it's pretty universal. My friends and I were the A grade students, all from lovely homes, all with loads of hobbies and opportunities. We all still behaved in ways our parents would have been horrified by. Isn't that just being a teenager?

Unless you're with your teenager 24 hours a day they are almost certainly going to get up to things you disapprove of. And you probably won't ever find out.