Friend has accused me of being a snob

[HiveBehind]

I live in an area which is very beautiful and has many good points, but has an issue with bored teenagers drinking in the park/committing petty vandalism and the like.

A few friends were at my house last night and we were discussing some of the latest antics of the local youth. One of my friends said you could hardly blame them, as they were bored and had nothing to do. I said I disagreed-I grew up here and didn't behave like that, and neither do my children. I pointed out the numerous sports clubs and facilities avaliable to young people in recent years, far more than we ever had. She got quite cross with me, said "not everyone can afford violin lessons you know" (DD plays violin) and told me I was a snob and needed to check my privilege. Everyone sort of went quiet, and she then tried to laugh it off as ironic banter, but it clearly wasn't.

I sort of went to bed a bit "oh" but the more I think about it the crosser I am. I was born and raised here in an overcrowded council house, my mum ended up a single mother, we were skint. I went away, came back, DH and I aren't loaded but we've bought our own house and we prioritise the DC doing activities and such because we want to give them as many opportunities as we can. DD's violin was fourth hand, I bought it with money that I was given for my birthday, I do car boot sales over the summer to pay for her lessons over term time.

Friend moved down here from the city for the scenery and to do the whole Good Life thing, comes from well off family,yet apparently seems to know it all. Who the fuck does she think she is?

The thing is that all of this is such a complex issue. Calling people names ( either snob or yob) is not going to solve anything. I presume we want a ' solution' to kids behaving as 'louts or 'ne'r do wells'?

I think it's more in the head than in the pocket apart from the extremes. Look at the kids in one family, they don't all behave the same way. Kids often go through phases of being awful and the ones who have had love and stability pull themselves out of it. People often forget their own youth and also blame a whole group for a few bad lads.

I think we should focus on helping parents ( where pocket really matters) and the kids will come right in the end. This climate has seen a lot of hidden hardship creep in.

Don't forget though, Plato 429 BCE was complaining about ' kids of today', it can't have all been down hill from then!

I have been called a 'snob' because we have been careful with what we've worked for, when it's happened I have channelled my very best Margot Leadbetter, The Good Life, and drawn myself up to my full height and replied 'How very kind'. People really can't cope when you don't argue with them! As I've said many times the best aggression is passive, it's the hardest to respond to.

Nobody’s saying it’s okay to damage property, but @MsTSwift and @WhyTho are right. However well you believe you parent your kids and provide them with opportunities there’s no guarantee they won’t go off the rails in their teens. We all know of rich privileged kids who’ve ended up in rehab in spite of the opportunities they’ve had. Fortunately most young people do eventually sort themselves out when they grow up enough to empathise with people other than their friendship group. I wouldn’t say you’re necessarily a snob op, but you do come across as both naive and rather smug and I sincerely hope you never have to eat your words.

i took it as a compliment when my bil called me a snob, he was pissed off royally when i said 'you obviously think i'm better than you, but there's no need to be jealous' for the record he's always been a twat long before this.

You're getting a hard time here OP, and I don't really know why.

It's not being a snob to say that vandalism is unacceptable. And that kids should be doing something else with their time. And let's be honest, if kids have the money for drink / drugs / spray paint, they have a quid for the football pitches!

And why are we bringing up a generation of people who always gave to be entertained so they don't do something illegal?

@Gentlemanwiththistledownhair
Excellent post.

My dd habgs about in the park....she dosn't commit candalism or do drugs( she us 11) but she garhers with her friends and have a fine old time. She also had music lessons but not interested atm so i dont force her.
Tbh youhave a point.
Kids can go to the park without causing mahem.

Ohwhat

Google acts435.org.uk and see if there is an advocate near you.

They are running a school uniform drive this summer.

The hilarious thing is, this being mumsnet, most of you are probably loaded compared to me, and nobody is smashing the shit out of your local play park.

(a) you have a massive chip on your shoulder about where you came from, all this justification about how you were the kid with the single mother who lived on a council estate and how well you've done for your self.

(b) My local play park is a haven for teen/youths, on nitrous oxide, smoking skunk and roaring round on stolen mopeds. They don't all come off a council estate. You have got a hard fall coming if you think only council kids are disruptive. Kids will go off the rails if they damned well please. Coz upper class and privately educated people never do any of these things do they (Jamie Blandford).

The thing I've observed with closely controlled kids, the ones that are forced into violin lessons etc throughout school , go wildly off the rails at uni. OMG they know how to party once the leash is off. Every thing up their nose and down their throat they can grab hold of, all morals fly out the window. And Mummy and Daddy largely fund it too, with fairly big allowances.

OP,
You friend doesn't like you and was having a dig at you.

You do not sound like a snob at all.

Any decent, normal person, would be appalled by that type of anti social behaviour.
There is absolutely no need for it.

Many, many teenagers can hang out together, even having a beer and would never dream of damaging someone else's property.

There is no excuse for vandalism.

Irrespective of what financial bracket a person was raised in, it is possible to raise your children to have respect for themselves and others.

The two issues are not conflated.

People who randomly damage other people's property are thugs.

Thugs can come from any background.

Failing to see the horror of kids going to parks tbh. Where else is better? Crack dens, Harrods, Ladbrokes? Parks are lovely outdoor spaces for the community...it's the behaviour there that is concerning.

I don't think you're a snob but you do clearly have different values to your "friend". I also think that she has voiced feelings that she has in a way that is hurtful - even if she apologises that's still the way she feels about you and the way you're bringing up your DC.

Under those circs, I'd question whether it's worth keeping her as a friend - do you really want to be second-guessing how she's feeling, whether she resents your choices or is judging you all the time?
I couldn't be arsed with any of that - I wouldn't bin her off specifically, but I certainly would keep her at more of a distance from now on.

Out of my three teens I only have one who at 15/16 occasionally hung around in the park and would have a drink with her friends (no vandalism etc and she wouldn't get drunk)

She is also the one who did the most extracurricular activities - st johns, duke of edinburgh, gymnastics, harp, theatre make up, youth club - she's even part of a forum now she's 17 to run and improve those teen facilities - but occasionally they wanted some time to just hang out

I think there is a grain of truth in what she said. It’s less about money and more about cultural capital- which yes, does give you privilege to some extent. What’s the point in booking a badminton court if you don’t know how to play? Maybe don’t even know it’s there. Who will tell you? The point of cultural capital is not necessarily having the tools to investigate and execute this sort of thing, regardless of money.

Your friend was pretty rude to say that in company and it was definitely a hurtful comment. I would be pretty offended if someone said that to me. But there is a grain of truth in what she said - it is not the case that all parents do/provide those things.

You had tough beginnings. But your mum's efforts meant that you were given the opportunity to be socially mobile, through her input and your own hard work. That was privilege, though a very slender one compared to those that other people have! You are now passing that privilege onto your own DC, who now have better opportunities than you did and so it continues... To try to compare your own past self to a teen growing up in poverty today is to compare chalk and cheese, because even at the time the efforts made by your mum meant that you were different.

To add, vandalism and anti-social behaviour is a horrible thing and living in poverty does not excuse it. But living in poverty probably does explain why teens are not on the badminton court.

Eh, I think she was out of line to come at you like that. And really no matter how poor or bored someone is, vandalism isn't the answer, lol. But, if it's the only issue you've had with her, let it go. Friends are hard to come by, and such a small thing is not worth losing one over. Just chalk it up to a difference in opinion poorly handled by her.

Yes actually. My mother also made sure we had all the opportunities she could manage. My brother's career is actually directly linked to the hobby that she took on a small extra job to fund. That's just what you do, surely?

Isn’t that a form of privilege though - the fact that both you and your mother were prepared to go to bat for her/your kids to ensure they got whatever was within your means? And they fact that you/your mum wanted them to have it in the first place?

Not all parents are like that. I do think your friend is a bit of a tit though and her remarks would have annoyed me.

Your friend is the snob! Honestly, the times I've come across that type of snobbery when people are on the defensive, resenting anyone who may aspire to something better or have more than them.

Pay no attention to her.

Oh and I meant to add there's absolutely no need for you to justify what you have or are able to provide for your kids. Everything within reason comes down to choices. I remember tLking with an admin assistant at work whose husband stayed home with their baby about how so many people said things like "lucky you can afford it" etc. Now she certainly wasn't flush with cash, and we talked about how sometimes you MAKE it work, by going without, etc. I could relate because i took a few years off when i had two babies at home. We went without for a lot, but were also lucky to have gotten help at yhe most dire times from my parents (thank god for them and their generosity), but there are concessions to be made if you want certain things. For example, programs for lower income people, too.

Your friend made a valid point, that does not maker her jealous, and the anti social behaviour happens all around the country. Some parents cannot afford to do things, just because you can does not make you a snob either, but she is right in saying not everyone can afford what you can.

Sports clubs, art clubs, libraries, bus to cinema and shops, gym, scouts, youth clubs, wtf else do you want?

None of those things are free (except the library) and lots of libraries are closing down. Our local one is only open a few hours a couple of days a week because the council won't spend money to have it open any longer.

We have a youth club (not free) and various sports clubs (again, not free). The nearest cinema is 45 minutes away by car or train (again, not free, or easy to access). For older children, that's about it unless you count a couple of parks - however they're pretty much entirely aimed at primary children.

Obviously the answer isn't for children to vandalise things but in some areas there isn't anything to do for free for older children. Bus fares, cinema tickets, money for them to go bowling or skating or swimming all adds up. Our local play park has become the hang out for teens (as they have nowhere else to go) and they're then criticised for hanging around doing nothing. Our town has no cinema, no pool, no bowling alley, no youth clubs for over 14's - what else are they supposed to do?

You're lucky your mum had the time and skills available to take on an extra job and earn some extra money for you - just as you're lucky to have the things to sell at car boots to make money. Some people can't even afford to heat their homes properly, let alone buy violins and music lessons for their children.

@HiveBehind you clearly still missing the point, or indeed you are a snob, not quite sure which yet?

She sounds very judgemental in her own way.

For what it is worth I agree with you.

I am from a poor area and do not expect my kids to cause bother to others,

However my eldest did drink in the park at 17 but they were well behaved and were in by 9. I saw them hanging out when I was out for a walk! I did make it clear I expected him to behave himself and take home the cans, mad eh? We are not in a area with vandalism so it worked. In other circumstances I would have told him to stay home.

The worst that happens in our park is empties left that I and other walkers put in the bins and occasional shrieking banshees. We ARE privileged / lucky in that.

But check your privilege in the context of children's standards of behaviour, if those are the words she used, would put me right off.

Then again I do believe in the social benefit of trying to get on with as many people as I can even when they like to make it difficult, lol. It is what the category "friendly aquaintance" can cover quite well,ime.