Friend has accused me of being a snob

[HiveBehind]

I live in an area which is very beautiful and has many good points, but has an issue with bored teenagers drinking in the park/committing petty vandalism and the like.

A few friends were at my house last night and we were discussing some of the latest antics of the local youth. One of my friends said you could hardly blame them, as they were bored and had nothing to do. I said I disagreed-I grew up here and didn't behave like that, and neither do my children. I pointed out the numerous sports clubs and facilities avaliable to young people in recent years, far more than we ever had. She got quite cross with me, said "not everyone can afford violin lessons you know" (DD plays violin) and told me I was a snob and needed to check my privilege. Everyone sort of went quiet, and she then tried to laugh it off as ironic banter, but it clearly wasn't.

I sort of went to bed a bit "oh" but the more I think about it the crosser I am. I was born and raised here in an overcrowded council house, my mum ended up a single mother, we were skint. I went away, came back, DH and I aren't loaded but we've bought our own house and we prioritise the DC doing activities and such because we want to give them as many opportunities as we can. DD's violin was fourth hand, I bought it with money that I was given for my birthday, I do car boot sales over the summer to pay for her lessons over term time.

Friend moved down here from the city for the scenery and to do the whole Good Life thing, comes from well off family,yet apparently seems to know it all. Who the fuck does she think she is?

“Providing your kids with opportunities isn’t a guarantee that they won’t one day be sitting at the park drinking and smoking at 11pm. ”

This with ribbons and bells on. How utterly naive can you be?

It’s a sort of magical thinking. “If my child plays the violin/hockey/goes to private school (delete as applicable) she will be insulated from any teen misbehaviour”. Let’s hope that’s true and it’s that easy !

Magical thinking, yes. Tra la la laaaa, it will never happen to meeeee!

I prioritise my dc doing extra-curricular activites as well even if it means I'm carefully counting the pennies elsewhere. I also spend most of any birthday money I get on the kids, it makes me happy & I rarely want stuff.

I have a friend who moans she can't afford for her dc to activites but also insists they won't eat supermarket own brand food or wear secondhand clothes. Fair enough I suppose but mine are used to secondhand (they do also have new but the majority is secondhand) & are not at all bothered by food labels.

I've been called posh & a snob for our choice of activites which include ballet & piano but they are so mainstream I can't see that either could be seen as posh etc.

I think some people like to justify their spending priorites by calling others posh.

@HiveBehind don’t like your ‘friend’s’ tone in saying that. I would be just as unimpressed. As a pp said, manners cost nothing.

You sound like a snob because you can't see the links between societal conditions and the kids' behaviour...or are excluding it based solely on your own experience. Not because you encourage different behaviour in your children.

OP I live in an area pretty much exactly as you described. I was also raised in a council house on a pretty run down estate. My DP and I work hard to provide for our family and still have very little in the way of disposable income however what we do have goes on the DC. They each play an instrument and attend 2 sports clubs a week and DD goes to brownies. I'm no snob it's important.

I'm with your friend.

pictish. Children can only sit in the park smoking and drinking if the parents let them.

MsTSwift I think the OP was saying that she managed to keep her children on the straight and narrow from a fairly humble home. Private education wasn’t mentioned.
Activities alone won’t be sufficient but family norms and expectations embedded from babyhood will.

There is a correlation between societal conditions and delinquency but that’s not necessarily the same as a cause. Parenting is the key factor.

Pictish you come across as extremely defensive. Were you a juvenile delinquent as a child or are you a really shit parent? Perhaps both?

It always annoys me when people ( esp politicians) trot out the line about there’s no youth clubs any more as if that would be the answer to everything. There weren’t any youth clubs near me when I was a teenager and even if there were I wouldn’t have gone to them!

I write this from my prison cell of course....

Children can only sit in the park smoking and drinking if the parents let them... Activities alone won’t be sufficient but family norms and expectations embedded from babyhood will.

That's such a naive way of looking at things. My parents gave me every opportunity I could possible want - they were loving and supportive and generous, brought us up with a strong sense of right and wrong and suitable boundaries. I can't think of a thing I'd do differently. But I still ended up drinking and smoking in a park at 14 because my friends were. For the record, I turned out fine - but I would definitely have been classed as one of the "youths" OP was berating, despite my violin lessons, choir, orchestra, drama club, netball coaching etc etc.

Of course there is a distinction between going to the park to socialise, and the yobs who give a bad name to the peaceful kids.

The main point I took from OP's post was that her friend saw music lessons as a "snobby" thing to do. To my mind that is the reprehensible attitude, not moaning about kids in parks.

School music teachers work really hard to set up orchestras, usually going above and beyond to encourage their pupils. Is this snobby? Will children be put off joining in because it is deemed a "snobby" activity? Certainly, not everybody can afford a violin, this is why school music departments have plenty!

Hmm. Personally dh and I both swotty types from supportive homes who did the badminton thing rather than the park thing. But know a few kids from similar lovingly supported piano playing book lined homes who went properly off the rails.

Anyone who says check your privilege can fuck right off
Anyone who refuses to check if they have privilege whilst berating others for not living as they do, can fuck right off.

And why are we bringing up a generation of people who always gave to be entertained so they don't do something illegal?
I grew up in the 80s/90s. Kids being bored and vandalising the local area, drinking and taking drugs in the park, having absolutely nothing to do in our quite affluent area was a thing in those days. It’s not a new suggestion that to avoid anti social behaviour it’s better to have things kids can do.

The disagreement about local youth sounds fair enough, but ‘check your privilege’ would have my hackles rising. With a good friend, i’d bring that up at a later date, perhaps humorously but just so she knows it didn’t pass you by. With a not so good friend, I’d ignore and maybe, in time, not seek that person’s company so much. Whatever the case, just be yourself.

Still think check your privilege is a wanky thing to say. I mean if the friend has politely raised the question that it might be harder for people without a lot of money to afford hobbies would be one thing but she just sounds like an arse.

Why on earth do you feel you have to explain your family history because a 'friend' told you to 'check your privilege ??

It doesn't matter what your background is/ was !

You could be a duchess or a princess, but that doesn't mean you are a snob !

You could live on the streets and still BE an entitled/ snobby arsehole!

What you need is nicer friends. Ones who are not secretly envious preferably.

:)

You are taking the piss expecting every teenager to turn into dutiful gym bunnies AND to be convinced your little darlings would never etc. You are fortunate, count your blessings and maybe get involved in the community to find out what the teens want (then again your attitude would be all saving the unwashed masses and just create hostility).

P.S Kids have ALWAYS been kids. Doesn't matter which generation you are discussing and it doesn't matter whether they were from 'priveliged' families or not.

Think of the outrage about the 'bad influence' of the 50's music and dancing. Then in the 'swinging' 60's. In the 70's it was the long hair, in the 80's the multicoloured hair and men openly wearing make up....... blah blah, and on and on it goes.

In every generation there were the 'bad' kids, who smoked and drank and took drugs and listened to the 'wrong' music.

So the kids who are hanging round the park in a small place with nothing much else to do ................are doing EXACTLY the same things their predecessors did FGS !!

Everyone’s kinda missing a big factor here anyway - you can pat youse;f on the back for being an amazing violin-toting parent like the OP does if you like...and you can castigate yourself for every failure, real or imagined, like most of the rest of us make as a parent too. Doesn’t matter.

One common denominator that all the incidents shared when when I was a teen amd still share now, is alcohol. Our drinking culture encourages, normalises and celebrates it as a pastime. Who gives a shit about badminton eh?

And to all the people who are telling the OP to 'be thankful' or 'be grateful'..............WHY should she feel she is being unreasonable to object to a so called 'friend' being so hostile/ aggressive to her ????

OP and her DH have worked hard and bloody EARNED to pay for what they have got. They haven't asked for handouts or been workshy, and I'm sure they do without the things they cannot afford, same as everyone else ! So why should she be 'grateful'???????? She bloody worked hard and earned it, same as anyone else can !!

peachgreen definitely not naive. Raised our own children. Cared and changed a good few very challenging foster children through their teens. Worked professionally and lived with children with significant behavioural difficulties.
The one thing the kids with behavioural problems and our foster children had in common was .poor parenting in one form or another. No, violin lessons aren’t enough alone. They have to be part of a structure.
If you are smoking and drinking in the park as a child of fourteen, your parents should be stopping you and building in an alternative way of supporting you to adulthood. Children can only drink, vandalise and smoke in the park if the parents choose to let them or if they abdicate all responsibility.

pictish you are right that drinking and drugs fuel antisocial behaviour. If you are a child under eighteen it is your parents responsibility to monitor and modify the impact of alcohol and to steer their children away from drugs.

I didn’t say drugs. I said alcohol.
Incidents occur far more readily under the influence of alcohol than any other substance you care to mention.