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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

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Original poster

Was this rape?

148 replies

OoohMasala · 08/08/2019 23:53

Referring to my ex.

I was half asleep. He pushed up behind me. I said no I'm not in the mood. He still continued to put his penis half way inside me. I moved away. He did it again and said 'come on we can just have a quickie'. I pulled away and said no, I don't want to. He continued to pester. Put his hands in my pants and we ended up having sex. I just went along with it. For reference, he was emotionally abusive and I was scared of him.

Weirdly, I forgot about this incident and only just remembered it and it's making me feel a bit sick when I look back at it.

Rape seems too strong a word. But I only left him a few months ago, still not over the abuse and very confused...

OP posts:

jellycatspyjamas · 09/08/2019 09:55

A partner pestering in bed may not perceive what they’re doing as rape. There can be mixed signals and false senses of security and although they commit the act, it’s not hard to believe that at the time they didn’t consciously perceive it as ‘rape’!
(Manslaughter)

A partner pestering in bed isn’t rape. A partner penetrating his partner after her clearly saying no is rape. Assuming he heard her saying no and continued regardless he committed the act of rape regardless of intent (though I’d struggle to argue honourable intent on the part of a man who didn’t stop when told no).

That doesn’t in any way minimise the horror of your experience, there are other laws which help reflect the complex brutality of what happened to you.

Mummyoflittledragon · 09/08/2019 10:21

Hercule
I misinterpreted your comment of 7.32 then. I thought you were saying it wasn’t rape. Glad to see we agree.

InsertFunnyUsername · 09/08/2019 10:23

Tell me again how the analogy makes no sense

Because it does not matter what the perpetrator perceives the act as, what matters is the act itself and if it's considered rape or not. What happens during the rape or how the victim feels can differentiate from person to person, but it is still rape.

muffins145 · 09/08/2019 10:38

No I don't think it was rape because you were sending mixed messages. You need to push him away and say a firm NO in future

Mixed messages???? She said NO I DO NOT WANT TO. Tell me what's mixed about that??!? And then again said NO

So u have to physically push someone off you for them to understand you don't want to have sex?? No, I think the op saying no I don't want to is enough.

Welcome to mumsnet, where if you aren't kicking and screaming shouting for help for someone to get off you, it couldn't possibly be rape

Original poster

OoohMasala · 09/08/2019 10:45

Wow, this thread is really odd. I'm quite upset reading it. It's like a race to the bottom. It's like the coercive control I experienced counts as nothing as I wasn't physically beaten. Thanks for those who are responding. Sorry that so many people have been through awful, awful things.

OP posts:

muffins145 · 09/08/2019 10:49

Ignore all the people saying it wasn't and u were sending mixed messages, that is pure bs and what happened to u was wrong and u have every right to feel the way u do. Hope ur ok OP.

InsertFunnyUsername · 09/08/2019 11:02

Rape seems to be the only crime where the blame can be put on to the victim. You wouldn't say the murderer had mixed messages on whether you wanted to be killed or not, or if the mugger thought you was handing him your purse even after you said no and if you didn't retaliate, it must have meant you were wanting to have your purse stolen.

So all I would say OP is to ignore the comments and try to get help on how you're feeling. All the best

jay55 · 09/08/2019 11:02

It was rape.
The threat was there, the op knew that if she didn't give in things would be much worse later. It was wholly coerced.

MNHQ

HebeMumsnet · 09/08/2019 11:09

Morning, everyone.

We just wanted to pop by and post a link to our We Believe You campaign which has lots of information about support and help for victims of rape and also a page on rape myths, which might be of interest as we've seen a few myths being perpetrated on the thread.

We know that the OP was asking for people's opinions, so we haven't made loads of deletions (just a few where we felt there was victim blaming going on) but we felt we ought to step in and point this out. There's lots of other info on the pages that might be helpful, too.

OP We're really sorry to hear you had this horrible experience. for you. We hope you can get lots of support in RL, too.

HattieRabbit · 09/08/2019 11:29

I don’t understand why MN allows posts like this, where an OP is asking for opinions, then remove any posts that disagree on the basis of ‘victim shaming’ - I was VERY careful in the way I worded my original post.

Outlining that it was WRONG and ASSAULT but in my opinion not equivalent to the brutal rape I had experienced. I suggested that perhaps there should be different terminology - ‘Agrivated rape’ for example - as no sorry but I don’t think my experience should be put into the same catagory as someone whose partner simply didn’t listen to no!

I have had a partner do that! It felt shitty and wrong...it did not feel like the time I was ACTUALLY raped!

But MN removed my post anyway! Why bother asking for opinions? Why bother allowing threads like this?

muffins145 · 09/08/2019 11:33

It doesn't have to be brutal or violent for it to be rape.

brightfutureahead · 09/08/2019 11:34

He had told me how he wasn't attracted to pregnant women and he had previously told me I need to buy bio oil as I was getting stretch marks. He hated my boobs.

Eww what a sleaze. That’s his problem if he doesn’t find pregnant women attractive. You’re pregnant with his child so he should find you even more beautiful - but shallow men like that don’t think that way. They’re just thick. What a twat.

HattieRabbit · 09/08/2019 11:34

OP when I see things on TV about women who were even more brutally raped than I was, I sit there and think ‘wow- that’s so much worse than what happened to me! It’s crazy that that call it the same thing’

So it’s not like I’m sat here just trying to make mine seem so much worse than yours - I see it from both sides. I just don’t think it’s very fair to put the least traumatic experience to qualify, next to the most traumatic experience to qualify ...and call it the same thing!

If you feel personally aggrieved by that then I find that really odd!

muffins145 · 09/08/2019 11:35

Just because it wasn't equivalent to your experience doesn't mean it wasn't rape. That's probably why ur comment was removed.

HattieRabbit · 09/08/2019 11:39

@muffins145

Yes but the actual title of this thread is ‘was this rape?’ MN can’t then remove a carefully worded (and relatively well explained) ‘well no I don’t think it was- I think it was assault!’

Because they deem that ‘victim shaming’ WHATS THE POINT?

We’ll let you ask a question but remove anyone who disagrees 🤔

AristotlesTrousers · 09/08/2019 11:40

I'm really sorry for some of the responses you've had on this thread, OP. Your experience sounds awful and you shouldn't have to justify yourself to anybody else.

MollyButton · 09/08/2019 11:45

The exact same thing could be said about assault: you might have just got a black eye, or maybe even just a slap not leaving a long standing mark - and someone else might have been beaten within an inch of her life, bruises, broken bones, concussion, scars. It doesn't mean it isn't the same crime.

FelixFelicis6 · 09/08/2019 12:00

HattieRabbit Your responses here have been absolutely disgusting. There will always be someone who has gone through worse. That does NOT mean you get to minimise what other people have been through. Think what you want about your own experiences, which of course were horrific, but to minimise them against other people’s experiences is nasty and cold behaviour and you should be ashamed.

IT WAS RAPE. Rape is penetration without consent. That’s bloody it!!!!!

muffins145 · 09/08/2019 12:16

@HattieRabbit no I still don't agree with what your trying to say to be honest, it was rape . Not "assault"

AcrossthePond55 · 09/08/2019 15:01

Listen Masala, I am the mother of two men. When they were teens and we 'had the talk' this is what I told them about consent;

"I don't care what a female has said before, I don't care where your dick is at the time, NO MEANS NO THE FIRST TIME SHE SAYS IT. Even if she's said yes and changed her mind, even if she remained silent at the beginning because silence is NOT consent. Once she says NO or signals 'no' in any way you STOP what you are doing, you don't argue or cajole/coerce. You put your dick back in your pants. Period!"

Based on that, you were raped. There are no two ways about it.

I think part of the problem is that many (probably most) women have been in your situation and each one of them has had to deal with it in their own minds, in their own ways. If a woman doesn't want to think she has been raped by her partner, fine, that's her decision and she can live with it. But NO woman has the right to decide what rape is for another woman.

herculepoirot2 · 09/08/2019 15:42

Hattie: please, just stop it. Nobody is trying to draw an equivalencies or comparisons here except you. The crime of rape has a clear definition and what happened to the OP meets it. And when you had a partner who “didn’t listen” and penetrated you without consent, yes, you were raped. That’s what rape is. Legally irrefutable. Black and white.

Rachelover40 · 09/08/2019 16:47

It was definitely rape, the op was very frightened and said no. Op, what are you going to do? Rape crisis centre sounds about right.

Hattie, I get where you're coming from.

Original poster

OoohMasala · 09/08/2019 19:46

Thanks all.

OP posts:

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